Transcript:
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Brad Caruso:
Welcome to Civic Warriors, brought to you by Withum. On this podcast, we bring the conversation to you, sharing engaging stories that motivate and build consensus in the nonprofit community. This podcast is about the innovators, the leaders on the frontline of adversity, guiding lights in the nonprofit industry affecting change. And through their stories, we can all join forces to become civic warriors. Hey Warriors. Welcome to today’s episode of Civic Warriors. Brought to you by Withum. I’m your host, Bradd Caruso, leader of Withum’s not-for-profit practice, and proud supporter of our active duty and veteran community. It is vitally important that we show respect and also directly help those that lay down their lives for us and protect our freedoms. Too often we overlook the real issues that affect the veteran community of this country and we can always do more to help talk about real impact, support, and healing. We have a very special guest today Dot Sheehan. Dot is the founder, president and CEO of Operation Hat Trick, a 501c3 not-for-profit that generates awareness and support for the recovery of wounded service members and veterans through the sale of OHT branded merchandise and products, proceeds of which are donated to select organizations that fulfill the OHT mission. Welcome to the show, Dot.
Dot Sheehan:
Thank you very much. I look forward to this.
Brad Caruso:
So I’ll start off with one question, which is how you started Operation Hat Trick and you know, what’s the one thing most wanted by wounded soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan?
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah, that was the trivia contest on a Boston radio station. Pretty popular one quite frankly. And they have, you know, a lot, a lot of guests that come on, you know, I was thinking of everything, what could that be? And the answer was, baseball cap. A baseball cap will cover wounds, swelling, treatment, bandages. And I was so struck by it. I said, Come on, can you just get these guys a hat? I mean, how hard is that? Right? So I was at the University of New Hampshire at the time in athletics and part of my job there was to bring projects or programs to the university and or athletics that would make either or both of them look good. I think Operation Hat Trick has done that in spades. But in the middle of the night that night, I was still so bothered by it. I thought let’s do something. And what would we call it? New Hampshire. We live a lot by hockey and so I thought Operation Hat Trick would be perfect. And we didn’t have a true business model at the time. We do now. A few months later, Nate Hardy and Mike Koch were killed in Iraq and Nate Hardy is from New Hampshire. His parents worked at the University of New Hampshire. And so we’ve dedicated Operation Hat Trick to them. They were two Navy Seals.
Brad Caruso:
What do you feel in your experience drove veterans to appreciate the hat?
Dot Sheehan:
Well, you know what, you have a combination of things happening here. You have the love of your country with a hat, right? Could have an American flag on the front or it could have University of New Hampshire or could have the flag on the side or the flag on the back. So there’s love of your country. And then you combine that with the love of your team, your company, your brand, whatever. And you, you have a powerful combination there. Let’s go to a, an Alabama game where we see a ton of hats. The love of their country and you know, they love Alabama football. So when you combine those two things, you’ve got a pretty powerful combination. And I saw it work really well. The first time we went to Walter Reed, we had a group of us that went to Walter Reed to hand out hats and to visit those who were wounded.
Dot Sheehan:
Right? Nothing will prepare you for that. Nothing. So we went to their workout room. They were all men that day. 60 of them with between one and four amputations. Now you know, they say we’re going to see our first quadruple amputee. Now I know intellectually what that means. So I said, Whoa, hold on. What am I going see today? Right? They said, You’re going to see Brendan, he’s 22. And he lost an eye 10 teeth and all four limbs. And I wanna say, why bother? They said don’t give him a hat because he is depressed. Uh, this was June. They said he was wounded in April. I thought, You think he’s depressed? You think you think seriously. So I kind of stood back as a general came in and he wanted to talk to Brendan because Brendan was like nobody else had ever survived this injury.
Dot Sheehan:
He’s the first one to get this far. And Brendan looked up with him with one eye and he said, Sir, you got a cigarette. Well, the guy didn’t know what to do, so he just backed out of the room. Right. Brendan looked at me and he went, I got him, didn’t I? I said, Oh boy, did you ever get him? For sure. So that’s who was in that room. I happened to have a hat for 25 year old guy, triple amputee. He had shrapnel in his face and he’d been burned. Now I thought amputations would bother me. They don’t, burns do. And he was burned on the face and head. He was depressed. Yeah. You think he had his wife with him and a five month old baby that she was trying to bathe in the sink. They have like a dorm there. They have two rooms and then you eat your meals down in the cafeteria.
Dot Sheehan:
But he wasn’t well enough to get out of a room yet. So she was trying to handle this all on her own. They had a five year old as well. And when I gave him the hat, he started to cry and he said, Ma’am, you’ve almost made me feel normal again today. And maybe just maybe my five year old won’t be afraid of me when he comes in to visit. So if you cry at Walter Reed, you have to go in the hall. I spent the better part of that day in the hall. You just, you worry about them. So when you leave, like what will happen to that family? She didn’t sign up for that. Five young men have survived that injury. Quadruple amputation. One is in Maine and we’re very close to Travis Mills and his foundation. We donate a fair, fair amount of money and he deals with recalibrated veterans and we pay for a whole week for 40 people in the summer to go. It’s called Operation Hat Trick Week. And we just made a donation for his health and wellness center, which he opened in September. So I mean, all you need to go is one time and you say, I’m not going to complain until at least tomorrow morning. Right.
Brad Caruso:
I’m sure it’s a life changing experience. How many times have you been since then?
Dot Sheehan:
We went six times. Yeah. One of the first times we went President of UNH came with us. Senator Jean Shaheen came and we had another senator. We were in two groups. You really shouldn’t have any more than four or five. We had like 15 and they still let us in. So we separated. I was in group two thankfully at the time. And I look in group one and it’s the Hardy’s, uh, Nate’s parents and Senator Shaheen and the president and all of that. And they had gowns on, they had masks on, they had hoods on, they had gloves on, They had footies on because of the risk of infection. Right. The young man had penetrating head wound and they thought he had the flesh eating disease and they thought they were going to amputate both legs. The father was there with him and he had been a hockey player.
Dot Sheehan:
So the leg thing was really gonna be an issue for him. And the father comes out in tears and he said he won’t wear the green padded helmet you have to wear after brain surgery. So the president looked at me and he said, Do we have a UNH helmet? Hockey helmet? I said, Sure. He said, Get one and get it back to this kid. So I don’t know what the kid’s name is, I don’t know any of that. Right. James Van Riemsdyk, like who plays for the Flyers was leaving UNH at that point. We got his helmet, had it signed, sent it back to our contact. Nine months later I got a card. I still have it with a very good looking young woman on the front and an either better looking young man on the front. And it was him and his name is Shane.
Dot Sheehan:
She wrote the note and said that they were getting married in June. This was like March. So I sent UNH sweatshirt, his wedding gift, and she said that he got rid of the flesh eating disease after 22 surgeries. They did not have to amputate his legs, but the penetrating head wound was an issue. So she was writing the the card because he was incapable of it. But she said the reason he had progressed to that point even was because he thought he played hockey for UNH, wore that hockey helmet every single day. It was like, wow.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. Talk about impact. It’s a small gesture of kindness, but the value of it that he perceived from that and the just the token appreciation plus, you know, getting you out of the mindset of what you’re going through. You know, anyone struggling with mental health challenges, how do you help them get out of that mindset of all of the challenges they’re facing? That’s the key.
Dot Sheehan:
That is the key. You laughed, we’d laughed. We had like 200 hats on a cart. Right. And they would fight. They’d literally, you should have heard the language and the verbal fights. They would have. One guy wanted Mississippi, but we only had one Mississippi hat. Right. Another guy wanted that hat. They were trying to trade each other. They were mad at each other because one wouldn’t give the other one the Mississippi hat. I mean it really got, uh, pretty testy there for a while. They thought, well son of a gun. I guess they like these hats. And they were so proud of those hats. You have no idea what that simple little hat meant to them.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. Just that symbol.
Dot Sheehan:
Yes, absolutely.
Brad Caruso:
Operation Hat Trick has clearly been around for several years now. You’ve had significant impact from a dollar perspective, but maybe you wanna share a couple stories of, of impact that uh, OHT has had. Uh, you’ve shared a couple so far, but uh, they’re so powerful in just helping understand what you do and I’d love to hear a few more.
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah, I mean some statistics, of course I was working at the university and trying to do this at the same time for a number of years and it got finally, Yeah. I mean I’m too old for two full-time jobs and it got to be, I want this to be my legacy quite frankly. So, uh, retired from UNH and do this full time. Once I did that we escalated significantly in terms of dollars and the things we could do. Cause you had percent time spent on it. Right. We’re small. We wanna be small because we want to know where every dollar goes. And we want to know if somebody’s in trouble in an organization which has happened during the pandemic, they could call us and we might be able to help them. Right. We want that communication to be a two-way street. This last year for the very first time in F Y 22, we donated over a million dollars for the first time.
Dot Sheehan:
That’s huge. Our business model is this, let’s take a hat made by 47 outta Boston and there is a wholesale price. The price, they are going to sell it to Dicks Sporting Goods. Right. If it is a $12 hat and it has the University of New Hampshire’s logo on it, we get 10% of that. Or a dollar-twenty. If it just has the American flag with O H T, we get 12% or a dollar-forty four. That’s a lot of dollar twenties and a dollar forty fours to get to a million dollars. I gotta tell you that’s built into everything we do. So if we have an apparel collection with 130 schools on Fanatics right now, if your UNH are probably going to get, get four or five different designs. If you’re Alabama, you’re probably getting 20. The hoodies, the zip ups, all of that, the hoodie I have on, there’s royalty built into everything and we get that.
Dot Sheehan:
We make our money through selling product to merchandise. The only nonprofit we know like us, we do get individual or corporate contributions, but it’s minimal. 95% of what we raise is through merchandising product. And that is not usually happening anywhere during the pandemic. We kind of wondered if that was a good thing to rely on retail, I gotta tell you that much. But we did 50% better than we’ve ever done before. No games, no teams, no tickets, no parking, no nothing. And people were still buying product. That particular collection on Fanatics has brought us to a new level. We gave to 65 organizations last year. That’s a lot. It’s a full-time job to give away money.
Brad Caruso:
It’s the average gift that you give out to each of those.
Dot Sheehan:
Well you know, we did an analysis on that in the beginning. We were so happy. The first check was for $1,500, we thought we were it right. Give $1,500, average is $20,000. Now we do not give more than $25,000 to any one organization, especially at first. We do have an exception to that. That’s a Travis Mills Foundation because we support that week of, you know, airfare. All that stuff has gone up. And this year we did extremely well. So we did an additional donation to a health and wellness center and we doubled our donation to Warriors and Quiet Waters. And that’s in Bozeman, Montana. And that’s an organization that brings head wounded, guys post-traumatic stress out to learn how to fly fish. And we sponsored a week for seven of them to learn that. So we doubled what our original donation was. We’re all over the country, we’re in 39 states. We wanna be in all 50 guys come from all 50 states, but 39 organizations in 39 states. So we’re pretty proud of that quite frankly.
Brad Caruso:
You absolutely should be proud of that. I mean the amount of impact you had, and if you think about every dollar 50 you’re raising per sale and then each year you’re not talking about over the lifetime, you know, each year you’re giving out. Yeah, a million dollars, a substantial amount of money. It adds up slowly by the founder of a nonprofit. I’m sure
Dot Sheehan:
<laugh>. Uh, we have somebody on our board who went to the Naval Academy and the Fought and Fallujah, Iraq with uh, Nate. And he said the second million will come quicker. Absolutely it did. Cause that was about the time that the colosseum collection on Fanatics was coming online. And that has absolutely made a difference. Hey listen, I’ve got a guy who works as an independent contractor in Atlanta. We’ve got a website guy, we’ve got a couple people on our social media team and me. That is it. And that’s very few people. We don’t misspend any money. We have a lot of people who support us, help us, all of that. But that’s not very many people to raise a million dollars a year.
Brad Caruso:
No, it’s not. And I imagine, from what I know of your organization and just hearing some of the, the stories you’ve told, I imagine there’s a a power in partnership a lot of organizations that both support your mission as well as help drive those sales. Can you talk a little bit about your partnerships?
Dot Sheehan:
This year we have paid for half of a food truck. It’s called Let’s Chow and the executive director is a Navy attorney and he lost a best friend and he decided to do something good and started a nonprofit with a food truck in Maryland. He feeds homeless veterans for free of course. And he has developed a five year combat veteran training program. So if guys wanna go into the food truck industry after five years, they’ll certainly know how they wanted to do a second truck in San Diego. So they had enough money for half the truck, we paid for the other half. It’s husband and wife veterans who wanna go into the business. They’re running that business. It’s an Escondido and it’s up in operational now. We have advertising on it. We get into some very interesting things that would be one of them. A food truck.
Dot Sheehan:
Another is we support Warrior Ice Hockey. Probably every state has a Warrior Ice Hockey team. All of these guys have been injured. They all belong to USA Hockey. And we have a corporate partner in New Hampshire, Red River in Claremont, New Hampshire who helps us. We have nine teams. So we are in Alaska, Minnesota, North Carolina, South Carolina, Washington dc New Hampshire, Vermont, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Colorado. And we pay for ice time. And you say, what’s the big deal about ice time? People say ice time on average is $500 an hour. Whether you go at one in the afternoon or 10 o’clock at night, I don’t know why it’s so expensive and why they can’t reduce it. But San Diego at $600 an hour and a lot of these guys can’t afford it. Some of the guys don’t work. Most of them are standup skaters, some of them are not.
Dot Sheehan:
Some of them are paralyzed or amputees. So we pay for ice time. Additionally, we’ve paid for like in South Carolina, they had absolutely nothing. Nothing. They didn’t have a trailer for their equipment. They didn’t have uh, sleds for a couple of the guys who were amputees and it needed to fit their body. So we bought a couple of sleds, we bought them a trailer and they were wearing football helmets to play hockey cuz they couldn’t afford a hockey helmet. So I said, How much is a hockey helmet? Well they’re not cheap. But I said, Listen, they’re not, No, but listen, if you go and you play in another state or you go to their tournaments, you don’t look like the rest of them if you’re wearing a football helmet. So they looked like they were orphans. I said, Listen, we’ll buy the helmets. You need something so that you fit in with the rest of the guys. They were forever thankful for that. We’ve kept a couple of those organizations alive during the pandemic. Grown men retired Marines in tears because we gave them the money. It’s really heartwarming.
Brad Caruso:
It’s little things in life.
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah, yeah. Ice time. Well we saw during the pandemic two on the Minnesota team committed suicide. They couldn’t get on the ice. They were alone, they were depressed, they were isolated. So we know ice time helps with connection. If they can get on the ice and have connection, they’re more apt to be less challenged.
Brad Caruso:
Oh, without a doubt. You bring up a very, very powerful thing, which is just that power of being together. I think anyone that’s experienced depression or anybody that goes through that, certainly if you don’t get together with people, it’s a lot harder. And if you don’t have that personal connection, especially if you don’t get to do the things you love. If you love hockey now, you can’t do that right then and there. That takes away the one joy and certainly it’s needed. And so those little gestures once again may seem little, but they’re not, they’re massive. That impact that you’re having is you are saving people’s lives.
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah. And maybe you don’t even know how to skate, but you wanna learn and and that helps. We’re gonna give a donation or gonna make out the check today to our Undersea Warriors and they do scuba diving and that’s another one of those things that it’s a very expensive course and we kind gonna help this guy get off the ground a little bit. And we like taking those chances on people who need a hand. Right? We give to like Semper Fi is pretty large, but Nate Hardy liked them and we give for adaptive equipment. So if a guy needs a track chair so that he can take his kids to a park, it’s a wheelchair that helps him stand up and it’s a wheelchair that will go over rough terrain. And we had a guy in Rhode Island who has paralyzed 32 couple of kids really depressed because he had a regular wheelchair.
Dot Sheehan:
Once we bought the track chair, his recovery went skyrocketed. So we do those kinds of things. You asked about our licensees, we have 22 of them, so it could be headwear. We have four headwear licensees, we have 47 colosseum, top of the world in Zephyr. We have three or four apparel companies. We have a tailgate games company. So they have corn hole boards and um, pickle ball and things like that. We have jewelry coming online. We just launched our first consumer product, which are bandaids by Dukal and they’re camouflage. I just ordered 12 boxes. I mean really for stocking stuffers. They’re on Amazon, not very expensive at all. And I figure I need a box. My daughter lives next door. She needs a box. Her husband needs a box in his truck and he needs one at his shop. He’s a builder so there you go.
Dot Sheehan:
Right. And they’re going to sell to doctor’s offices, VA hospitals. Hospitals. And so they’ve got some rep teams out there selling and we’re pretty excited about that because that’s kind of unusual for us. We have dugout mugs, It’s a baseball bat that is hollowed out and you drink your beer outta the baseball bat and it’s got OHT. And what we loved about that was I saw it on LinkedIn and I reached out and the guy said, Yeah, let’s talk. I know he has a baseball cap on. As he turns the cap around it says New York Yankees on it. So I said, Okay blaze, I live in New Hampshire. He said, Oh no, the Red Sox right. I said, Yeah, the Red Sox. So I look at his name and I said, Are you Roger Maris’s grandson? He said, Yeah am I can’t believe you know that.
Dot Sheehan:
I said, Yeah, who broke Babe Ruth’s record in 1961 with 61 home runs? He said, Wow, you really know that. I said, My father was a diehard Yankee fan from New York. So I said, Here’s what we want. We’ve been told no with headwear and other things with Major League baseball. I said, I want Operation Hat Trick on one side with an American flag and I want the Boston Red Sox or the New York Yankees or all 30 teams on a dugout mug on the other. He said, Okay, I’ll go ask my contact. I said, Is that Joe Torre’s granddaughter? I mean it’s like seriously, it was a conversation.
Brad Caruso:
<laugh>. Yeah. It’s just like, yeah, right. How,
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah, so, so I bet my guy that no, this is not going to work. You just wait and see. He comes back and they said, Yeah, we can do that. I said, Wait a minute, let me say again when I want. And I repeated it. He said, Yeah, I know that. He said, Here’s what Major League Baseball said. You cannot say you have an agreement with Major League Baseball. You have an agreement with dugout mugs. And as a result, because they’re a licensee of Major League baseball, you have access to all 30 teams. I mean made in heaven. So we’re doing those and we’re kind of excited about that. I gave some as graduation gifts or Father’s Day gifts. They’re beautifully done. We have a company called I Slide, they’re out of Boston. The guy used to be with Reebok and he’s got a lot of basketball investors, young guys who are investors in, it’s a flip flop.
Dot Sheehan:
Now you can custom make, So my grandson who’s 10, he’s got a soccer ball on one and his initials on the other. So kids think that is absolutely fabulous. We’re gonna have socks. We have all kinds of licensees. Some do well, some don’t do all that well with blankets. We have pillows, we have tents. We’re going to have a tent at Boston Garden. Bruins are particularly good to us. Around Veteran’s Day we have a Red River Operation Hat Trick, Bruins Foundation, Bruins promotion. And we have a custom sweatshirt and knit hat this year that will start to be promoted in a week. 100% of the proceeds come back to Operation Hat Trick, which is darn nice of them. And they promote it. They do a fabulous job. So this year I said, Can you order from a number of our licensees, which Lama agreed to do. So we are having a Bruins Operation Hat Trick tent and under the tent we have drink wear, we have head wear, we have apparel, we have an Adirondack chair, a licensee out of Canada. They do a great job and in the cold weather it lasts. I have one on my deck, which is absolutely great. And so we’re going to be selling out of that tent, which is the first time we’ve done that. So we want the Bruins to be the role model for the rest of the league. We’ll see if that catches on.
Brad Caruso:
I’m sure it will. So obviously one of the main ways of supporting your organization is through the purchase of merchandise. If someone wants to support you, how do they go about doing that?
Dot Sheehan:
They can go to operationhattrick.org and we’ve got a shop now. We don’t sell anything ourselves on Shop now. You will see a link to all of the licensees we have and you can go to that and the product will be there. We also have a store of our own where we have a lot of, like, I generally don’t wear something with a school on it because there are so many schools involved, like over 500. So they do some generic stuff like Home of the Brave and Land of the Free, stuff like that. They’ve got some really nice stuff. They’ve got some new stuff. I’m going shopping soon. So yeah, you can go on that and anybody who has product of ours that will be on there. Or you can go to operationhattrick.org and we use PayPal. People can make a cash donation or quite frankly if they don’t wanna do either they can get involved with the veteran community in their town. There’s a lot of help that’s still needed.
Brad Caruso:
No doubt. I just bought my Operation Hat Trick hat. I bought the uh, Blue Hat American flag on the front and the OHT on the side.
Dot Sheehan:
Nice. Great hat.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah, I love it. Came quick.
Dot Sheehan:
Nice. Oh that’s even better to hear.
Brad Caruso:
I have one more question. I have the burning question. So Dot, what is the number one piece of merchandise purchased and what is the number one hat that you give out?
Dot Sheehan:
Uh, number one hat we give out, we’ve got one that says USA on it. Extremely popular. And an American flag on a tonal camouflage hat. Really anything with American Flag or USA, those are the most popular. And the number one, uh, it’s on the men’s side because as you can imagine, well our demographic is really pretty good. Like it’s 54% men and 46% women, which is pretty good. And the women wanna wear just what the men wear. So a men’s quarter zip or a men’s fleece from Notre Dame. Notre Dame is our number one school, I swear. And I’ve been to Notre Dame and I’ve been to their bookstore. It is like they have buses coming into the bookstore because it’s just like an experience. I almost bought rosary beads, but I, I mean you name it, they have it, they have it. They <laugh> and everybody. I sat outside before a game. I wanted to see who was wearing apparel. Everybody, everybody, everybody. Everybody has a piece of Notre Dame apparel. It also depends on, so you’ve got Notre Dame, we’ve got Alabama, you’ve got Clemson, Georgia and Texas sold the hell out of it last year we’ve got Michigan, we’ve got some really big schools that do really well and it, it depends on football and it depends on whether they win or lose. Last year, Georgia being number one, Oh man, it was beautiful. And Texas had not come on board and their alums were really mad and they came on board and did a heck of a job. Alabama’s always up there. Clemson now is always up there. So interesting. The schools that do well. University of North Dakota. The North Dakota State.
Brad Caruso:
Yeah. And I’m sure we’ll see more schools come on board. The more they hear this is, why would you not wanna support this? It’s one of those things that when you hear your stories, when you hear the impact that you have, it’s vitally important to participate to be there. And it’s a simple gesture and an easy thing to do.
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah. And we’ve got a guy now who’s working with a number of schools. There are some schools who have never really pulled a trigger on getting apparel or headwear in their bookstore. They’re doing that now. We have a partnership with UCLA and of course their head football coaches from New Hampshire. So we hear that he is going to wear a an OHT hat the week of Veteran’s Day during his interviews. I will be forever thankful to Chip Kelly if he does that. And UCLA, they’ve had to educate the university first about it. It’s not controversial at all. We don’t take a political stand either way. UCLA, she, the licensing director, has done a fantastic job getting them to order more. We have a relationship now with their veterans resource center. We help with their cooking program for guys who have post-traumatic stress or traumatic brain injury. And we help with their recreational therapy program. So it’s a two-way street there and she’s doing a great job. So every school we could have a partnership with. The minute they hear it, they say, Why haven’t we done that? I don’t know. Why haven’t you?
Brad Caruso:
Why haven’t you?
Dot Sheehan:
And in some cases the licensing person also has three or four other jobs, not a full time person. Arizona does it as well as anybody I’ve ever seen. And we give to Fisher House, it’s like a Ronald McDonald house, but for military who’s sick in the local va. We have a program where they won, they share the first prize last year and we donated $40,000 and they said the manager of the Fisher House almost fell down. She was just, she almost fainted. That’s a lot of money when you survive only on donations and you get a check like that. She could not believe it.
Brad Caruso:
Dot Sheehan, founder and CEO of Operation Hat Trick, I wanna thank you for joining us on Civic Warriors. Certainly it’s been an experience hearing some of your stories, hearing the impact that you’ve had, hearing the expansion that you’re having and how your message is just in the infancy stage and your legacy is gonna live on.
Dot Sheehan:
Yeah, you know what, I sleep well at night cause I know about a lot of people we’ve helped for sure. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. No doubt. And I wanna thank Krysten. Krysten was an intern when we first started this and so we’re forever thankful for that. Thankful for you putting me on today. You can tell I love doing this stuff.
Brad Caruso:
And we love having you here and Warriors, thank you for listening. Remember, it is vitally important to support our veterans and help them fight as they help fight for you. And we appreciate your time and support. Thanks so much everybody, and thank you again Dot, for being here.
Dot Sheehan:
Okay, thank you. Bye.
