Transcript:
This podcast was transcribed through a third-party application. Please disregard any misrepresentations.
Intro Speaker (00:00):
Welcome to civic warriors brought to you by Withum on this podcast, we bring the conversation to you. Sharing, engaging stories that motivate and build consensus in the nonprofit community. This podcast is about the innovators, the leaders in the frontline of adversity, guiding lights in the nonprofit industry affecting change and through their stories. We can all join force to become civic warriors.
Brad Caruso (00:23):
Hey warriors. Welcome to the show today. We’re joined by a very special guest Micaela Isler, the Executive Director of NABPAC the National Association of Business Political Action Committees. NABPAC is a 501(c)(6) trade association founded in 1977 and it’s the nation’s only organization dedicated to promoting, defending and professionalizing PACs and political action professionals. With us today as well is Brian Bender, who is a leader in our membership association trade association group here at Withum. And we’re looking forward to having a informative discussion and, and maybe find out some facts about PACs Micaela. Welcome to the show.
Micaela Isler (00:55):
Thanks so much, Brad. And hi, Brian. Nice to be with you both today. Happy New Year.
Brad Caruso (00:59):
Happy New Year, maybe to get started. Micaela, maybe you, you wanna share a little bit about yourself, how you got to where you are at NABPAC and some of the work that you’re doing.
Micaela Isler (01:05):
I’ve been the executive director at NABPAC for almost three years now. I’ve continued to weather the pandemic, which began roughly six or seven months into my time here at NABPAC. And then the events of January six have had a pretty dramatic effect on the business PAC community in the last year. But I have been involved in politics for almost 30 years. Started my career in politics in Texas, right as I was graduating from college, had an opportunity to work on some campaigns. I worked for a political party and kind of did a bunch of different things there, but ultimately in fundraising. And from there, I went on to work on a state political action committee for the Texas association of business. And truthfully it was very different fundraising than political party or candidate fundraising. And I didn’t have a lot of resources at my fingertip on just really structure, how to raise money, board governance, all those things.
Micaela Isler (02:00):
And so I was lucky to be able to come to Washington and work with a number of organizations. NABPAC was one of ’em, public affairs council, BIPAC, and it was unbelievable to see the network of PAC professionals in the DC area that were in the exact same position as I was. And so that really began my PAC journey. Uh, ultimately ending up here in Washington, DC, running a large corporate PAC. And then after 10 years made the switch professionally to move into lobbying. And I lobbied on behalf of the banking industry and the property and casualty insurance industry, mostly at the state level covering ultimately around 18 different states. And then as I said, about three years ago, had an opportunity to come and lead the National Association of Business Political Action Committees as their executive director.
Brad Caruso (02:46):
Nice storied history, and definitely the perfect person for the job.
Micaela Isler (02:49):
I think it does marry, you know, all of my background. I was very intentional once I understood the business of politics on the back end. I’m not sure I quite understood that when I was in college, once I understood that I was very intentional in wanting to touch all facets of government relations. And so having the PAC and grassroots background really was a foundation. The fundraising background was a foundation for me, and I think it did help tremendously as I moved into lobbying, uh, and then really into running a trade association that I actually was a member of back in the day. And so I understood the organization, but I also am a practitioner and I understand what our members are going through in this moment.
Brian Bender (03:32):
Now, Micaela, you’re, you’re gonna be modest because you were a named 2021 top lobbyist by both The Hill and the National Institute of Lobbying and Ethics and you’re a professor at GW teaching about PAC. So, you know, you have such an expansive experience in the advocacy world. What brought you back to PAC administration and working for NABPAC?
Micaela Isler (03:53):
That’s a great question, because I will tell you when I was first approached about this opportunity, I, I really almost passed it up. I had a great job. I loved what I was doing. I had just had a little girl and was sort of set in, you know, had been with the organization for almost 10 years and I was, I was good. I didn’t really think I needed to do anything different, I thought I could stay there forever, but having a conversation really changes everything. And it was through that first interview and having the conversation with the NABPAC executive committee that I realized that I have always been so passionate about PACs and the work that we do. And I’ve been an advocate for almost 30 years for PACs, especially in the business community. And I really felt like my background and my experience would be helpful and could make a difference in the organization.
Micaela Isler (04:39):
And so it was of a leap and, you know, obviously, uh, a big change, uh, not directly lobbying like I was before, maybe not. And we are not a PAC and that’s one thing, a lot of folks think when they hear a NABPAC, they think we are a PAC, but we are not. We represent the PAC community and your listeners have probably heard and we say it all the time that there’s truly a trade association for everything in Washington, DC, including business PACs. And so I really saw this as an opportunity to be able to help our members and to shine a bright light on the important work that they’re doing in Washington.
Brian Bender (05:13):
You know, that’s awesome. And you, you talk about NABPAC and who you are and who your members are. And I think one of the things that would be really helpful for a lot of our listeners is if you could tell us what a business PAC is and what the different kinds of PACs are and how we as individuals can be connected to those PACs.
Micaela Isler (05:30):
Absolutely. There are several different kinds of PACs. And we’ve heard a lot about ’em from a number of different avenues, probably in our lifetime, but there are really two traditional types of PACs. One is called a separate segregated fund, and that’s where corporations, trade associations, member organizations, labor unions form a separate entity, they have a separate bank account. And they solicit contributions from either their employees, they have to be eligible and we can get into that in a little bit, or from their members. It is against federal election law to contribute any dollars to federal candidates from a corporation trade association labor union directly from their treasury funds. And so this is why PACs are created so that those dollars that are from their employees and their members that are voluntary after tax contributions, typically very small dollar. We’re also limited in how much we can actually receive those dollars, come into your bank account.
Micaela Isler (06:28):
It’s a separate account. Brian, you probably know a lot about this and all of those dollars raised. And then all the dollars that are then in turn given to candidates for office are all reported to our regulatory body, which is the Federal Election Commission, FEC, the other traditional type of PAC is what’s called a non-connected PAC and this is really your sort of single issue, ideological type PACs on either side of the issue, whether you’re pro-choice pro-life, pro-gun, anti-gun the human rights initiatives, you name it. Some examples would be like Emily’s list or single issue PACs. There are literally hundreds, almost over a thousand of those types of PACs as well. And so those are your traditional types of PACs, but there are also a couple of others that we’ve heard a lot more about recently, like super PACs and super PACs are really kind of a whole other entity that were created as a result of the Supreme court ruling of Citizens United.
Brian Bender (07:27):
So that sounds complicated. And it seems to me why NABPAC’s needed, because there’s a lot of different types of entities and you just spoke about at the federal level, and I’m sure there’s a whole other combination of complexities at the state level or the local level.
Micaela Isler (07:44):
It is one of the most complex jobs. If you are a PAC manager for any type of PAC, if you’re looking to hire someone, hire a former PAC manager or a current PAC manager. There’s a lot to know from an election law perspective, while you do have federal guidelines and rules and regulations around giving at the federal level, if you are at all engaged at the state level, it is a patchwork of legal parameters. All 50 states have a different set of election laws. Some states allow corporate contributions, some states do not. Some states allow you to file your federal election report in the state that maybe you’re giving like in a state like Pennsylvania it really depends on exactly what you’re intending to do with your PAC and who your audience is. And so, as you’re considering starting a PAC, the first thing I recommend everybody do is you better go find yourself an election lawyer, because even with the best of intentions, it is so easy to misunderstand some of the rules and regulations around what we do. And, uh, there on top of the rules and regulations, there are advisory opinions, both at the states and federal level that play into some of these decisions. So you need to have a very strong understanding of the laws, but my recommendation has always been to find a very strong election lawyer that can help you navigate all of these rules and regulations.
Brad Caruso (09:07):
And it’s highly monitored area where you don’t wanna make a mistake. I imagine, especially at that initial level, the initial set-up, the legal organization, all of that has a significant ramification down the road and given the amount of attention that PACs get on social media and publicly, and especially in election years, when everything’s going on.
Brian Bender (09:24):
Can you talk about the negative press and, and specifically I think a lot of, of our clients, whether they’re charities, trades, um, you know, any other, uh, social welfare organization, they can kind of shy away from being, having a PAC or even being involved in the advocacy world. Can you talk a little bit about the negative press that PACs received and the dialogue around that?
Micaela Isler (09:45):
You know, unfortunately there’s just a lot of misunderstanding around PACs and as your listeners are probably gathering already, it is very confusing and it really is specific to what it is you are trying to accomplish as an organization and how you’re structured and how you operate. But the reality is that particularly for corporations and business organizations, there has been a very strong effort to essentially regulate us or try to regulate us out of participating in the political process. And there’s a long history of business and labor unions and trade associations being involved in the political process since the beginning of Andrew Jackson time, uh, to see how money and politics has been center truthfully, and it’s not going away anytime soon. PACs were really part of the original reform. You had an onset in the late 18th, 19th centuries, where money was getting involved in politics.
Micaela Isler (10:45):
It initially was very wealthy individuals were the only ones that could run for office and PACs really were a way to, and this is, this is contrary to public opinion, but were really a way for small, you know, individual dollar donors to be able to pull their resources for a common cause for common good. And so if Micaela Isler, even today is to go give a 500 or a thousand dollars contribution to a candidate, that candidate is gonna say, thank you and, you know, kind of walk away wondering and wonder what issues are important to her. Like, I wonder why she’s at this event, but if Micaela Isler is showing up as a part of a labor union PAC or a trade association PAC, let’s say the national association realtors. Immediately, those elected officials understand that the issues that that person cares about have to do with realtors, so, or banking industry or the insurance industry, or a particular labor union.
Micaela Isler (11:43):
And so it really is a way for folks to be able to have an opportunity, to have a discussion and really showcase that there are oftentimes hundreds, if not thousands of people that are behind those contributions that are supportive of certain issues. And unfortunately, along the way, corporations outside of politics, I think have been some would say unfairly, some would say fairly demonized in a lot of ways. And so I think then the next extension of that is if they’re all participating in the political process, it’s bad in some people’s opinions. And so we really, as an organization at NABPAC have been a strong defender of our free speech and first amendment rights to be able to participate in the process because it truly is employees who are giving their dollars. They are voluntarily choosing to participate in the political process through their employers. And so we also have a lot of data that we can really point to that showcases that employers are a very trusted source of political information, even over political parties and other entities.
Micaela Isler (12:49):
And so most corporations have really taken the stance that this is a good government pro-democracy civic education. Most organizations, the vast majority of business PACs are split Republican and Democrat evenly, who they give to, which is not very well known you don’t hear that in social media or much of the mainstream media, but it’s easy to access. All of this data is publicly available for anybody to be able to go and download and access. And the reality is, is that most business PACs are giving fairly equally to Republicans and Democrats. And so we believe it’s our right to have to defend and protect these organization’s abilities to participate in the political process. Why would you tell one set of employees or constituents that they can engage in the political process, but not another. We are on a mission to set the facts about PACs straight. I think a lot of it does come down to just a misunderstanding of how PACs operate and where the money comes from and how they raise that money and where it goes and, and how much of it is reported to the election and, and also how little of the money, you know, 5% of the total dollars spent in the 2020 election cycle, 14 billion dollars, 5% came from business PACs.
Brad Caruso (14:07):
For those out there that want to hear a little more too Micaela is also a podcaster and has a podcast called Facts about PACs. And I, I listened to a few episodes this morning and heard, you know, talking about the importance of your employer and how much people view their employer as a trusted source of information as a place to be able to discuss these issues and, and have a PAC. I think it’s, it’s very important to be able to pull those resources and make that happen. And just hearing some of the statistics about how many people trust their employer over mainstream media and over news and, and other outlets.
Micaela Isler (14:36):
Well, and we’ve tapped into, if, if you have listened to our podcast, a number of researchers that have really looked at, for example, at the University of Chicago, they’ve looked at the sort of quid pro quo. Like if you’re giving a lot of money, they should see sort of in the voting records, this was in particular in the Illinois state house trends. Okay. If so, and so gives X amount of dollars, then you’re gonna see a number of votes in their direction. And the reality was, they’ve looked at three or four decades of roll call votes. And what they found was that was no quid pro quo across the board. And we’ve tapped into other researchers from Princeton university, from BYU. There’s a professor at BYU that talks a lot about the moderating force that business PACs play in the political system. Because getting back to what I talked about earlier with PACs, being away for individuals to pull their resources together, even today, what we’re seeing almost coming full circle is that the only way you can really run for office is if you have personal wealth, not in all cases, but you’re seeing a large number of candidates who are able to loan themselves a lot of money and have the means to be able to get elected or at least run for office.
Micaela Isler (15:48):
It’s very expensive to run for office, especially at a federal level. And what we’ve found through some of that research is that we really can be a moderating force and sort of, especially after the unfortunate events of January 6th and being sort of tempering that rhetoric down and really focused on the issues of importance, which tend to be most surveys the economy for most people. And so really kind of getting back to basics on the economy and issues that impact jobs and people’s livelihoods is something that we feel we can play a part in doing. And, and we have done
Brian Bender (16:26):
And Micaela, you talked about transparency and, and that the fact that most PACs gives give 50/50 down the line between Republicans and Democrats, from what I’ve heard recently. And you can probably speak more to this. Um, I believe PACs are trying to be more transparent. Um, I’ve seen a lot of them doing their own reporting outside of FEC or state compliance, pulling all information together. Can you talk a little bit about how the PAC community is transitioning and getting that message out there?
Micaela Isler (16:53):
There’s always room for improvement in anything that we do. And so one of the things as a result of the events of January 6th is a lot of PACs took this moment to take a step back and to really dig in and talk to their donors. There were a lot of town halls. There were some focus groups, there were one on one conversations and really talking about the operations of their organizations PAC and doing what we’re doing here today. And dispelling a lot of the rumors and myths that their employees may have been hearing on social media channels, but what they found overwhelmingly is that once they were able to talk to their employees, their donors, that they had a strong governance, they had a board of directors that had oversight over the funds that all of the dollars were on a most of our PACs have a PAC website
Micaela Isler (17:38):
And you can go, if you’re an eligible employee, you can go and look at pretty much anything you would wanna know about your organization’s PAC and most try to make it super easy. Sometimes going to the federal election commission website, although it has gotten better over the years is not always the easiest thing to follow and understand. And so most PACs really distill down after an election cycle, who they gave to how much they raised, how they compare with others in their industry. And that’s all part of their, their PAC website and information, but they also talked about how they make contribution, how they decide, where those dollars go. And that normally there is a set of criteria that an organization will look at before they ever make a dollar contribution to a candidate. And so for the employees to really see firsthand that these are very well run professional organizations that also are held accountable through the oversight of the federal election commission really helped alleviate any concerns that they may have had, that these were just slush funds for people to just go give maybe to a lobbyist, to go have fun for weekend or an event.
Micaela Isler (18:39):
And so it really eye opening last several months. And many of our organizations saw that there may be ways to improve. And so they may have expanded on their contribution criteria, they may have diversified their PAC boards so that it was more inclusive of maybe all of the different business units, a lot have involved their ERG groups. It really depends on the organization, but the chief diversity equity and inclusion officers have been a person within an organization that has been tapped to be more and more a part of the PAC board of directors. So they can see exactly how the operations of the PAC are run and how decisions are made. And in some ways I think that helps them if they do get questions from their employees or shareholders or other stakeholders, to be able to say, no, I’m on the board and I see exactly how this is run. And Brian and Brad,
Micaela Isler (19:27):
I mean, the other piece of this is that most of our PACs either do internal or external audits of their PACs, I know I did when I ran a very large corporate PAC for many years. And I was one of the very few people that would advise, um, my peers to voluntarily, you know, use, we’re not mandated, we’re not required to have an audit. Uh, but I sure as heck wanted to be able to say that I was audited and that I had a clean bill of health and that if there were any issues that were, you know, discovered through the audit process, that we were able to, you know, immediately course correct and implement new policies and procedures. And so, I mean, I had a really well run. I mean, there was never anything that was really pointed out as anything, but it just made us that much better at the end of the day.
Micaela Isler (20:11):
And I think that certainly helps in building credibility for your organization’s PAC, to be able to say that not only do you have a board of directors that you have established contribution criteria, you’re limited in how much you can give and raise, but you also are audited by an internal and or external firm looking over your, you know, looking over your books. And by the way, by the federal election commission, one thing I haven’t mentioned is that every single PAC has to report every single penny in and every single penny out to the federal election commission, most PACs report on a monthly basis, depending a lot of it depends on how big you are, but some may do it on a quarterly basis depending on the election year. But all that information is reviewed by the federal election commission. You have someone over there reviewing all, if there’s something off in your report, you’re gonna get a phone call. Someone’s gonna call. You report beginning balances, ending balances and everything in between.
Brian Bender (21:05):
It’s governance. And I, I think when you talk about all the knowledge that you have and the value that NABPAC brings to your members and the ability to understand that compliance in the PAC administration, because it’s not just a checkbook, there’s an organization around it. There’s governance. There’s like you mentioned, we do, we do PAC audits where you go on an election cycle versus an annual cycle, or maybe it’s an agreed upon procedures where we look at compliance requirements outside of standard numbers in and numbers out, which you said are reported to the FEC and other agencies. But if you’re just a listener and you don’t understand all that intricacy, cuz you’ve lived it, how hard is it to set up a PAC? If I’m a, if I’m a C3, C6 or C4, what does that look like to me? Is it, you know, are there people out there that do this, that help organizations set it up? Should I be thinking about being involved in the political process?
Micaela Isler (21:55):
Yeah. And one thing I just wanted to, before I get to that question, Brian. I just wanted to point out too while yes, fundraising is a major piece of our PACs and we have to have money to be able to give to candidates. Most organizations only fundraise about one time a year and they’ll do a big campaign. But I think it’s important to also note that PACs are really part of the sort of good government civic discourse, just about getting involved in politics and helping employees understand the issues of importance, the candidates, where to go. I mean, part of it is just finding your polling location, how to get registered to vote is a major piece of what most of our PACs do, especially in election year. So this year, most of our PACs are really gearing up for their get out the vote and getting folks before the primaries getting registered to, to be able to go out and just engage and, and exercise their right to vote.
Micaela Isler (22:47):
So there’s on ongoing communication year round, and it’s not just about raising money. So it’s a really important point. And, and the feedback that the employees give to organizations overwhelmingly is that they want that information. It’s like 85%, want that information and appreciate that their employer provides that information to them. But getting back to your question, it actually, isn’t all that difficult to start a PAC. I think you’re going to give anything over a thousand dollars in contributions to candidates, then you need to form a political action committee. And there’s a form at the federal election commission as a statement of organization that’s fairly basic. But you do have to have a treasurer, a designated treasurer. And so sometimes that can be a little, a bit of a challenge just depending on the organization. And you also have to have a separate bank account set up and that can sometimes be a little bit challenging too.
Micaela Isler (23:38):
There are banks in DC in particular, I would say the state level, it’s a little bit more challenging, but at federal level that specialize in PACs. And so they understand the rules and regulations and all that you have to deal with. And so we provide a lot of that information. A lot of our members are actually vendor members, much like Withum, where we have a couple of banks that are also part of NABPAC membership. Uh, and there’s, as I mentioned earlier, a whole business, uh, in the, in, in PACs and in politics. And so many of the vendors that would support either starting a PAC and then obviously the ongoing operation of a PAC, the data management of running a PAC, especially as you get bigger is an enormous task. And as someone who started out trying to manage a PAC with an Excel spreadsheet back in the day, um, and don’t laugh because there are still PACs that are still doing that, um, which is fine it’s, you know, but there are a lot of incredible creative companies out there that are helping PACs manage just the data transmission, both from payroll and individuals giving and then all the money going out the door and then being able to that into a format that can be filed with the federal election commission.
Micaela Isler (24:49):
So you’ve got some steps to follow. It’s a, there’s a checklist. We provide that information to our members. I think the harder part is once you get it set up, what the heck are you gonna do with, how are you gonna raise the money and how are you, who are you gonna give it to? Is the bigger, those are the two bigger questions.
Brian Bender (25:02):
No, and I love that you tied it back to mission before you even went into that because, because PACs have missions too, they aren’t just, again, bank accounts, there’s a reason behind being involved in the political process. And that needs to be understood first and foremost, before you get into the, how we’re gonna do it. Um, so tying that into the overall mission of whether it’s a connected PAC or not a connected PAC that needs to be at the center of everything. So, so thank you for bringing that up.
Micaela Isler (25:28):
Well, I get asked a, I get told a lot that someone wants to start a PAC and they wanna be a million dollar PAC. And, and the first question I ask is, why? I, I know it sounds great to, and I believe me, I’ve run a two and a half million dollar PAC. And, and I understand that, you know, it’s exciting to be able to say that you have a large PAC, a lot of engaged employees or members, but, but at the end of the day, it is gotta be tied back to your mission and the goals of the organization and of what you are trying to accomplish. I would say most PACs do not need a million dollars, especially if you’re a federal only PAC. I had a very large PAC, but we gave at the federal level, but we also gave an all 50 states. Now, some more than others, but we did have that ability. So when you kind of whittle that down, if you try to have like a 50/50 split, it’s a lot less going to the federal candidates.
Brad Caruso (26:17):
When you think about federal tax, how, how much money, I guess, in, in a given year floats through PACs in general, do you know that off the top of your head?
Micaela Isler (26:24):
So it depends on what kind of PAC you are. If you are a non connected sort of single issue PAC, the way they’re structured is you can solicit anybody in the entire country. That’s a US citizen that happens to believe in whatever that issue is. The difference is you have to pay for all the administrative expenses out of that money that you, you raise. It’s a little bit more challenging, and you’re a little bit more limited if you’re a connected PAC, because you only can raise so much per person and you can only solicit a certain number of people. So just to give you an example, when I worked for my company, we had 50,000 US employees, but the way the, a federal election commission defines eligible employee, I could only solicit 13,000 of them for the PAC. I couldn’t even talk to the others about our PAC. So there’s,
Brian Bender (27:13):
That’s gotta be a challenge.
Micaela Isler (27:14):
It’s another major challenge. And so there’s a big part of what a PAC director has to do. I tell people, PAC directors are air traffic rollers because you really touch every facet of your organization from the CEO on down, and a large part of it you’re talking with payroll because you’ve gotta, you know, if you’ve got people on payroll deduction, that data has to be transmitted over to either your Excel spreadsheet, hopefully not, or your database, so that you can report that data to the federal election commission. But you also have to be speaking with HR because you’ve gotta understand who fits in that eligible category. It’s typically your salaried employees just on average, but there are some nuances there and they have to be US citizens or green card carriers. So if you, you know, I, and I happened to work for an organization that was a US subsidiary of a foreign owned company.
Micaela Isler (28:00):
So that was a major issue that we had to pay close attention to because we had a lot of expats. We had a lot of folks from London and all over Asia that would come to work in the United States that were technically considered eligible because they were supervisory, managerial and all those things. But if they didn’t have a green card, I couldn’t talk to them. So even on your solicitations, there’s a lot of disclaimers and a lot of things that as if you’re signing up for the PAC, you’ve gotta attest that you’re a US citizen or a green card carrier. You’ve gotta fill out your full name, employer, there’s a lot of data that we have to collect. So to answer your question, I would have to go back and really do a lot of, but, but from a business and employee funded PAC perspective, you know, your largest PACs and I need, I would need, I don’t have the data right in front of me, but you don’t have very, many other than, maybe on the trade association. Like the realtors are probably the largest around 14 or 15 million from the 2020 election cycle. And then it goes down from there. So,
Brian Bender (28:56):
You know, it’s, it’s funny Micaela, when we start talking about numbers, cuz I’ve seen a lot of PACs have an impact at that 100, 200, 300 thousand level. And I think everyone has in their mind that a PAC has to have millions and millions and millions of dollars. But the thing that I keep thinking about is just participate, just participating in the process you can do it for a lot less money per employee than you really think is possible. And to get in, in front of congressional individuals who have a say in these policies that you, your companies or you as individuals, for example, CPAs have an interest in.
Micaela Isler (29:31):
Yeah. So the average contribution from an employee to an employee funded PAC is about $26 a pay period. And they cannot give more than $5,000 per year so they can give in an election cycle. You know, I could give $10,000 if I wanted to 5,000 for each year. So you’re really limited. You can only go so far because you’re not gonna get a hundred percent participation. I mean, it’s very hard to raise these dollars. It is extremely hard. I mean, it’s a lot of people say, say, why would anybody want to do that? But then there’s a lot of reasons for that and of course it’s all, all individual, you know, perspective. But I had a very large PAC of the 13,000 employees that I had that I could even talk to about the PAC I only had about, I did have a good number, but I had about 60% participation. But the average is somewhere between 20 and 30% of those eligible of employees giving. And they’re not all. And as I said, they’re giving $26 a pay period. They’re, they’re not coming in at the 5,000 and that’s a big misunderstanding. People think it’s just CEOs and the C-suite giving $10,000 over a cycle. And, and they may, and many do if they believe in the cause, but still factored in it’s $26 a pay period. And that was in the 2020 elections cycle.
Brian Bender (30:42):
And I think this is why your podcast Facts about PACs is so important. It’s because there’s a mentality or a thought out there that PACs that are getting and giving millions of dollars when, to your point, the average PAC contribution that they receive is $26 and the maximum you’re allowed to give to an official is
Micaela Isler (31:02):
5,000 per election. So, uh, the PAC can give 5,000 for primary election and 5,000 for a general election. And then if there’s a runoff, then you, each one of those is considered a normal election. But generally speaking, you have a primary election and a general election. And so the PAC can only give a total of 10,000. Now, if you miss the primary election, then you can only give 5,000 if the primary has passed and you did not max out at 5,000, then the maximum you can give is 5,000 in the general election. So you, those, those primary dates for a number of reasons are very important, especially in your giving strategy.
Brad Caruso (31:39):
I’m curious about is with, with the PAC itself, are there limitations to other than the direct giving it’s like, how much can you pay a PAC director? Does the majority of the money go to administration or does the majority of money go to the actual cause on the expense side, what do you typically see in the either connected or non connected PAC?
Micaela Isler (31:55):
Yeah, they’re, they’re very different. So let’s let me unpack that a little bit. So a 100% of the dollars that are raised from the separate center rate fund side, a hundred percent of those dollars are going directly to candidates for federal office. Got it. It would be really rare that an organization that can pay for the administrative expenses pay for it out of those hard earned dollars, because it’s called hard dollars. It’s very hard to raise. Especially for a corporate or trade association when you can only solicit a certain number of people. So you really wanna think long and hard if you’re gonna pay for any administrative expenses. So salaries, vendor fees, audit fees, you know, whatever would be related to the PAC are, can come out of the treasury of the organization. And, and they do do that because again, you don’t want that eating up, you know, 40% of your budget, which it, it fluctuates, but you know, the general fundraising rules, it costs if you’re really good, 35 cents to raise a dollar because you have solicitation costs, design costs, you know, communication, are you mail, are you doing mailings?
Micaela Isler (33:04):
Are they digital? Are you, it depends on how you’re raising your money. And, um, and also your legal costs that can all be paid for out of the administration of the, as considered a administration of the PAC. Now, when you get into super PACs and 501(c) money and all that, that is a whole different ballgame and super PACs are not able to give directly to candidates. And there’s a really important distinction there. They can go up. They’re they’re really independent expenditure accounts. And so they can raise unlimited money from corporations, individuals from anyone basically, this is the, the citizens United ruling that we talked about a little bit earlier. But the difference is is they cannot go and give that money directly to a candidate, but they can go up on TV and they can send out mailers and they can do all the things you see that talk about how nasty so and so is, or how wonderful so, and so is. Super PACs can expressly advocate the election or defeat of a candidate. They just cannot give directly to the candidate. So that’s issue ads, TV, radio, that kind of thing,
Brad Caruso (34:07):
You know, Micaela from your perspective. Um, anything else that you wanna share about NABPAC anything else about, you know, how to get involved or you know, how to help NABPAC itself and anything you wanna share on that front?
Micaela Isler (34:16):
Well, sure. Well, I appreciate that opportunity. We are a member trade association. If you have listeners that are interested in starting a PAC for a business organization or trade association, we really are a convener of our members. We have about 800 members from over 250 organizations, businesses, trade associations, and we really are about the best practices convening our members, talking about what’s working, what’s not working the rules and regulations, and we’re the only organization dedicated to advocating on their behalf at the federal level we’ve been involved in every single, pretty much major campaign finance reform battle in Washington since, uh, we were founded and will continue to fight for the business community and, and really preserving their right to participate in the political process. So, uh, happy to, you know, you can reach NABPAC.org and we’re happy to send information, uh, about who we are and what we do and how we can help.
Brad Caruso (35:12):
Awesome. Yeah, certainly go check it out. NABPAC.org, looking for information. If you looking to start a PAC, have questions about PACs. I wanna have it just a lovely conversation like we have, which we appreciate you sharing. And just, just providing that, that education to me is always so important directly from someone who is a true expert in these types of organizations in this industry. It’s very helpful to hear from you and very helpful just to get that information out there so people can make informed decisions and, and really, you know, my hope always with these is that someone learned something, they didn’t know someone, you know, maybe I’ve never made a political donation before. I’ve never made a PAC donation. Now I might, you know, I know, you know, you, I heard you talk on your podcast and I heard about employers and I’m like, oh yeah, our employer talks about the AICPA PAC, which, which advocates for, you know, rule and regulations in our industry. And I’m like, that’s very important. I, I do donate to that, but if my employer didn’t say anything, I probably wouldn’t donate to it. So I think just that, that concept of trusting who to trust with that information, that concept of knowing what the mission of that organization is, and really appreciate your time and effort and spending with us and helping educate our listener base and, and us, you know, I, I learned a lot.
Brian Bender (36:17):
I wanna say, thank you too. Um, specifically, I wanted to point out that as someone who sits in on Micaela’s educational events, NABPAC, I would say the top association that I’ve seen as far as membership dues versus education that comes back. You even have a, a legal hotline for your members who can call an attorney at the drop of a hat with a question on a political contribution received they’re given. So, you know, the, the level of value and education that you bring to your members. Uh, I just want to congratulate you on developing kind of that structure over there, because I I’m impressed as an auditor who sees a lot of different trades and PACs as well.
Micaela Isler (36:57):
Oh, thanks, Brian. Well, I just wanna say, thank you both Brian and Brad, you were our very first new member of 2022, and we are excited about the partnership and working together, but really more importantly, I appreciate you having me on to be able to talk about this to your point, Brad, the more we can educate about these PACs and the importance that they play in our process, I’m all for it. So appreciate you having me.
Brad Caruso (37:17):
Thanks for your time. I, and, uh, looking forward to hearing more out there from NABPAC.
