Empowering Families and Inspiring Hope With Family Promise of Bergen County

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Brad Caruso:

<silence> Welcome to Civic Warriors, brought to you by Withum. On this podcast, we bring the conversation to you, sharing, engaging stories that motivate and build consensus in the nonprofit community. This podcast is about the innovators, the leaders on the front lines of adversity, guiding lights in the nonprofit industry affecting change. And through their stories, we can all join forces to become civic warriors. Hey, warriors. Welcome to today's episode of Civic Warriors, brought to you by Withum. I'm your host, Brad Caruso, leader of Withum's not-for-profit practice. Today's guest is Paul Shackford, president of the Board of Trustees, and Kate Duggan, the Executive Director of Family Promise of Bergen County. Family Promise of Bergen County, is a 501c3 not-for-profit organization whose mission is to empower working families facing housing insecurity to become self-sufficient by providing temporary housing and personalized support, as well as address food insecurity in the community every day. Their vision is that they have a community where every working family has a stable home and the means to create a better life. With that said, Paul and Kate, welcome to the show.

Kate Duggan:

Thank you. Good to be here.

Paul Shackford:

Thank you very much.

Brad Caruso:

Awesome. So why don't we start out with a little bit of background, how you got involved, uh, and a little more about, about the mission. So I'll turn it over to you, Kate first.

Kate Duggan:

So I am an audiologist by training. Um, but, uh, sometime along the, the way I started volunteering with, uh, the organization that became Family Promise, the Bergen County, and that was the Interreligious Fellowship for the homeless. And I used to volunteer once a year on Thanksgiving. And then one day, you know, you have these ideas that kind of rattle around in your head for a while, and I was talking to some friends and I said, uh, I, I think I'm supposed to be working with the homeless. And my friend turned to me and she said, and don't worry, God will provide. And I said, why did you say that? Well, it was a kind of weird thing for her to say. And she said, I don't know. I know you have a kid going to college, and I just have a feeling that everything's going to be all right.

Kate Duggan:

And that was the end of the conversation. So the next day, my husband was leaving for work, and I said to him, I'm getting a job working with the homeless today, and we've been married a long time, and he knows better than to engage in a conversation like that with me before he gets to work. And so he said, all right. And two hours later, uh, the phone rang and the, the woman who was the executive director of the Interreligious Fellowship called me and said that they had an opening, uh, for the position of director of volunteers, and was I interested? And, uh, the rest is history.

Brad Caruso:

Awesome. Paul, how'd you get involved?

Paul Shackford:

So I was a member of, uh, my church's outreach committee. And we were struggling trying to figure out what we could do in addition to what we were already doing. And a woman who worked in the city came to the meeting that night and she said, you know, I work on Madison Avenue and I step over this homeless guy every night. Now I worked in New York City for many years, so I've seen and experienced the same thing. And she said, there's gotta be something we can do. And we, she had just heard about the IRF, the Interreligious Fellowship. So we said, well, let's, let's see how, um, let's see how we can probably partner with them. So I gathered some people from the, uh, community, I put a sign up outside and I said, there's gonna be a little community meeting. I expected we'd to get 15, 20 people there.

Paul Shackford:

Our parish hall was packed with over 150 people. And I thought, well, there can't be 150 people that want to come out to support us <laugh>. Um, so, and, and there weren't, I mean, there were a lot of people there that had questions, but there was what I refer to as the second row, which really hated the whole idea. And they said, we moved out of the city to get away from this problem. I said, this problem is here. It's, it's here. Uh, they stormed out and actually they're storming out, solidified the feelings of many in the room that, wait a minute, this probably is something good we wanna do. And so we got started. Uh, we started the next month we hosted, um, home. At that point we were having homeless adults come to churches and synagogues, uh, every day of the year. They came to us on Saturday nights for two months.

Paul Shackford:

Then it moved up to four months, six months. And, uh, over, over a period of time, we, we just kept going. Um, one point a person saw one of our parishioners and said, it's a good thing we stop that crazy idea you had. And he said, stop it. We've been doing it for seven years, but we've been ultimately, we ultimately did it for over 22 years. So I get hooked, obviously, I, I think it got us hooked as, as much by the people who were so against something that, that solidified that there was something there for me.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. Well, you clearly were very well aware that there, there was an issue and then you obviously had a connection to it and wanted to solve it. And then seeing the, the reaction, you realize why that issue may persist <laugh> in that no one wants to solve it.

Paul Shackford:

Yeah. In fact, one of the people who was there was a nun and she came up to me after and she said, is there anything I can do to help? And she's very short, and I, I tell her to this day, I said, I don't remember if I actually picked up and hugged you or if I just thanked you, but she became volunteer number one, and we got a lot of people to volunteer after that.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. So how long has Family Promise been around?

Paul Shackford:

Uh, 39 years.

Brad Caruso:

39 years. Yeah. That's incredible. And I know that, and we're gonna get into this, some of the changes over the last couple years or some of the impact you've had. So, you know, 39 years is a long time for a not-for-profit organization and, you know, especially addressing the challenge of homelessness as a whole. So, um, one of the things I wanted to talk about, and one of the things that I think is always probably of interest in learning about this and how organizations help, but what, what, what are some of the, you know, when we hear the word homelessness, I wanna dive into that a little bit of like what that means. 'cause when people hear the word homelessness, they probably have a certain perception of what that means. And especially when someone says there's homelessness in our community, you know, there's a perception of what that means. Especially some of us work in the city, you know, we see different things. But what are some of the common misconceptions that you see or aware of hear about homelessness that kind of create that barrier to helping the actual challenge that exists?

Kate Duggan:

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said people know or think they know homelessness by what they see in the city. And the point is, all homelessness is not the same. And we actually call homelessness the H word, because as soon as people hear it, they kind of shut down. They revert back to the stereotype that they know. Right? But when we talk about homeless, first of all, family Promise works specifically with families and working families at that. So a lot of times people say, well, why don't the homeless just get a job? All homeless have mental health issues. All homeless people have substance issues. And the point is, that's not the case. That due to, uh, low wages, lack of affordable housing and the high cost of living just about anybody could experience homelessness. We read an article recently that said 78%. Now think about that. 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, meaning that once all the bills are paid, there's nothing left. And for a percentage of those people, they don't even have the money to cover the monthly bills. So with that in mind, it's easy to understand how one job loss, one illness, one family breakup, is enough to send a family spiraling into homelessness.

Paul Shackford:

You know, we talk a lot. In fact, Kate was with a meeting with some teachers explaining all of this, and one of the teachers said, I could be one of those families. So it's, it's, it's very prevalent, but particularly with families, they try to hide it. They're ashamed. We see homeless adults in the streets a lot, but you'd often don't see homeless families. And that's because they do what they can to provide for their children. There's always shame there, even though it might not be their fault. But the problem with that, they'll, they can double up and they'll double up with friends or family. That's not a long-term solution. Statistics have shown that a family that's doubling up their children suffer from negative educational consequences, emotional consequences on all levels. It puts them behind as if they were living in a shelter. So they have the roof over their heads, and that's number one, but their option is living in a car or living with somebody else. And neither of those are as good as they, they may sound,

Kate Duggan:

Well, you know what we're talking about, apartments. Uh, typically, so a family, one family will move into another family's apartment, and the apartment really is designed for one family, right? So they're, they are, um, squished in together. Maybe they're living in the living room, um, perhaps the family that actually is on the lease stays up late. Well, now the family that's staying with them, the children are getting to better to bed later than normal. They may not have a designated place to do their homework. So you can see why this would happen.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. And if you don't experience it, it's probably hard to connect to it directly, but, but not having a place to go to every day, or, you know, I think so many people take that for granted, including, well, you may have myself in there. I probably take it for granted more than, more than I should, in that when you have a place to go every day, you have, you know, you have this routine. Um, when that's not the case, you know, it certainly, you know, creates a variety of challenge, especially if you're a family, especially, um, having, having to, to support that. And then on top of not having a house, I'm sure if, if cash flow is tight, then food, where are you getting food from? Uh, where are you getting supplies from? All, all the kind of things that many people take for granted.

Brad Caruso:

And I think so many people lose, lose the world for the trees on why having a home itself is just so important, as you said before, from like a mental health perspective, from a fitting in with the community perspective, from a, just a variety of factors. And, and I think it just, it, most people don't see that, that challenge itself. They, they see the word homeless and they say that's a problem, but, but the reality is, as you said, what a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck and not having a paycheck for one, you know, one pay cycle means you miss your rent. And, you know, with the way that rent goes these days, sometimes people proceed to eviction at that point. Or if you don't, you know, you can't just consistently keep up with that. And then once you get behind for a little bit, it's hard to catch back up in, in the long term. And 'cause get, once you get behind, if you are already living day by day, it, it just creates a challenge. I appreciate you sharing some of those facts. I think a lot of that gets often lost and, and why it's so necessary for an organization like yourself to step in, to help in those scenarios, because it could just be a little bit, it's not, Hey, we're perpetually paying rent for seven years. It's, we're helping subsidize this for the short term. It's in many cases, right?

Kate Duggan:

So we, we have a, a very robust homeless prevention program, and we have found that in many, many cases, we can intervene before a family becomes homeless, which will, um, prevent the family, family from going through the trauma of becoming homeless. And for a little bit of money, you, our, our average is $3,000 per family. Um, we can keep a family stably housed. And this is really important because if a family loses their home, certainly to eviction, first of all, then that's on their credit, uh, report for a very long time, making it very difficult to rent a new apartment. Also, the, the, uh, cost of rents have skyrocketed since COVID going up 20% or more. So if a family loses an apartment they are currently renting, they will never find another apartment at whatever rate they are are at now. Um, and that's, that's a big issue when we are seeing families that, that have be been evicted. So maybe they were paying 12, 13, even $1,500 a month, which is relatively in this day and age, uh, affordable. Um, now they're looking at apartments who, that are the same size are smaller for 22, 23, $2,400 a month.

Paul Shackford:

And that, that leads to the trauma. I mean, imagine, imagine a 6-year-old how it might almost seem a little fun. We're gonna stay at somebody's place for a little while, but imagine you're 11, 12, imagine you're going into high school and you're, you have to hide this from all of your friends. You, you ca- there's nobody you can talk to to, to tell that you're living homeless. So that has, that can have lifelong negative impacts. So the, the Homeless Prevention Program is, is really, I think it has, uh, benefits far beyond, uh, and, and lifetime. I mean, we, we sometimes say that when we save a family, uh, we're not just saving that family. We're saving them and their family and their grandchildren and their grandchildren.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. Without a doubt. And, and that has a lasting impact on a variety of levels. So yeah, I appreciate that I, that that context and, and the program that you have. 'cause obviously that, that makes a big impact on people's lives, especially in the couple scenarios you described

Kate Duggan:

The issue, um, the current issue is that, um, a lot of funding for homeless prevention has been cut. And currently Family Promise is the only organization in Bergen County that has money for homeless prevention at this moment. So that's tough. I mean, that's a lot of families that are, we're getting calls for. I answered the phone twice yesterday, and one was for a senior citizen who needed homeless prevention funding, and another was a single woman. So we do families, uh, we were unable to assist either of those women.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah, a lot of the changes in funding we're seeing having a direct impact, and it's creating even more challenge the rising price of housing, as you said, it's, you know, goes up exponentially, whether it's apartment, housing, physical housing, whatever it might be, it's continuing to create additional challenges for individuals to overcome.

Paul Shackford:

We also serve a, a, a certain segment of the, of the homeless population. Uh, there's a, there's a group that just have been, will be poor for a long time, and literally we cannot, we can't help everybody, but there are groups and organizations and government support for those people. They can get their food stamps and so on. Um, then there's our group, which makes too much to get that kind of support from the government or other agencies, but not enough to exist on their own. And then there's the group above them that are fine and so on. So we found our, our niche in that middle area, they have to be working, they have to have a family, and they actually have to be willing to buy into the program that we have. And we'll talk a little bit more about that because when they leave our program, we don't want to see them other than to get a Christmas card from them and tell us how good things are going.

Brad Caruso:

When you look at, um, you know, there's listeners probably all over on here. You, you're in New Jersey, Bergen County. Um, can you share a little bit more about the county you live in? Just demographic information, just, you know, I don't think most people think of, think of the county you live in as a county that has a lot of homelessness, but I'm, I'm sure you know, obviously you're helping a lot of people, you know, can you share a little more information about the county itself and about kind of, you know, the individuals you serve in that, in that capacity?

Kate Duggan:

So, Bergen County is one of the richest counties in the country. And so, like you said, you wouldn't expect us to have a problem with homelessness, but about a third of, of the, um, residents actually struggle to provide the basic, um, needs for their families. So we're talking about food, clothing, healthcare, childcare, transportation, those kinds of things. So although it's a very rich, uh, county, there are also areas that are, are not rich. Um, and that it, this issue extends beyond the poor. I mean, people think of, always think of the, the homeless as being other people other than them, when in fact it is us.

Paul Shackford:

In fact, in New Jersey, um, the es- the latest estimate is that there's over 1.1 million people who are struggling to put food on their table. There's nine and a half million people in, in the state. So over nearly 15% of the people are struggling just to get food on the table. So, um, and of that, number one in eight are children, that's over a million.

Brad Caruso:

That's a substantial number if you think about that. I don't, I don't think people think about it in that term.

Paul Shackford:

Yeah. And, and, and the per, we can say percentages, but I was just, more lately I've been thinking when you hear a number of a million kids, a million people, and, and again, it's, it's
startling because of where we live

Brad Caruso:

Anywhere you, I mean, that, that's a startling number anywhere you live and, and especially, you know, giving some of the information you share. But, but, but that, that's a startling number. And I agree with you. If you say it's 10%, it's 15%. Okay, it's 10 or 15%. If you say it's a, it's a million a million people comprised of, you know, families, children, I don't think anybody would necessarily equate that or, or necessarily say that. Yeah, that's, I would think that off the top of my head.

Kate Duggan:

And this is why the cuts to, to SNAP to the, the food, um, assistance program is going to hit Bergen County just as hard as anywhere else in the country.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. And, and, and speaking of that, and, and maybe we can, we can talk a little bit more. 'cause I know in our first kind of conversation, I, I definitely was, uh, very appreciative to hear a little bit more about, um, you know, about your food program and, and how you started it, how that operates, how that's expanded. Um, and obviously as we've kind of talked about, but but haven't really dove into really, but, but food insecurity is a big, um, issue in today's society, both from a nutritional perspective as well as just access to food. Um, and it continues to change the challenge with respect to some of the government program changes, some of the things that are going on that are kind of detrimenting some of these basic, uh, benefits that people have received. Um, can you, can you go into a little bit further about how you, you know, started your meal program? I think you mentioned you started it or, or expanded it during the, the COVID era as, as we may call it one day. Um, but can you share a little bit more about the program, how it started, how you got to where you're today?

Paul Shackford:

Actually, it started a couple years after we started, 39 years ago. The first focus was housing, but then the founders of this organization said, wait a minute, they're also hungry. And so we started providing food resources to them. When it really kicked in, though, we, we've served in Hackensack in four different locations, but the last 15 years have been at the county shelter. And they called, they asked us if we would move our program there so that we could provide meals for the dinners for the residents of the shelter. And so we said, we'll do that. COVID- COVID struck four or five years ago now. And, uh, the people at the shelter said, well, I guess your program's gonna end because we were gonna relocate all of our residents to local motels. It's unsafe for them to be here. And we said, give us the names, their names, and the hot- motels and the room numbers, and we'll deliver.

Paul Shackford:

I said, what? They said they gotta eat. And they said, well, they have SNAP benefits they live on, they're now living on Route 46. They can't run across a four lane highway to find another fast food place. It's, it's not safe, it's not healthy or any of that. We'll deliver the meals. So we started delivering the meals. The very next day we packed them up, Kate and I got in our cars and we were driving 90 miles an hour down I 80 because there was nobody else on the road. And we delivered them. And as we were knocking on the doors in the motels, other people opened the doors and said, what are you doing? You giving enough food? And we said, yes, do you need some? And we added people to it. So we started feeding a lot of people that had not been residents.

Paul Shackford:

And at the same time, people then started coming to the, uh, the loading dock at the shelter. And they say, we hear you have food in there, <laugh>. And we said, do you need a meal? And they said yes. And so we started preparing meals and giving them to people who came up to the loading dock. Now about a third of the meals are served to people that are residents and twice that amount to people from the neighborhoods who come and get the free meals. Last year we served 70,000 meals, and in September of this year, we will celebrate our serving, our 1.5 millionth meal during this program. So COVID, we didn't start then, it expanded it, it changed it. My favorite quote is Winston Churchill, "never let a good crisis go to waste." This was a crisis on all aspects of our organization and the housing, but in the food, we started bringing them, and then people showed up. And by the way, the people who show up at the dock for the meals, almost every one of them are in apartments. Almost every one of them are working, but they don't, they have to make a decision, do I have dinner tonight or do I pay my rent? And as Kate said earlier, you cannot not pay your rent. So they pay their rent, they get it, and they can do that because we're providing the free meals for them.

Brad Caruso:

1.5 million meals is a lot of meals.

Paul Shackford:

You know, every night we need eight volunteers, although sometimes there's only seven or six, but generally we have eight volunteers. And I always talk to them because there's always somebody new there. And when I say that number of 1.5, even some of the people who have been doing this for a long time, they, they react just like you did, really. I said, I don't want you to go home and tell your friends and family what you did today. Oh, I served 50 people inside and a hundred people outside. I want you to realize that you're part of a group that served 1.5 million meals.

Kate Duggan:

One of the reasons we were able to do this is the, the model of the program. Historically, all of the meals were provided by congregations or businesses, schools, uh, civic organizations. And so originally we used to budget $2,000 a year for this, this program because all of the food was donated. And then when COVID struck that money, you know, that cost went up incrementally or exponentially. And, um, many of the congregations had to drop out their, their members were older. Um, they weren't getting together because of the unsafe conditions. And so now we're, we're paying much more. Paul will tell you the numbers, uh, for that program.

Paul Shackford:

Yeah, we're, this year we'll spend, uh, about $200,000, uh, for the food. So we used to spend zero, uh, now 200,000. It's interesting in, in the way of accountants, and by the way, I am a CPA when you, when you have your audited financial statements, there are only some things that you can put in there. And so we're, we're restricted to putting in that we, the walk-in dinner program costs about, uh, has a value of about $300,000. But when you add in the 20,000 volunteer hours that we have, and that other, the two thirds of the meals that are still done by congregations, this program has the value this year alone of over a million dollars and over, and it's grown. But since the inception, this, it's been well over 12, $13 million.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. That's one of the things that doesn't always translate when you're looking at a, you know, I'm obviously an auditor by trade and, and when, when you look at a financial statement itself, there's a lot of things that are in there and a lot of things that are not in there. And one of those things, especially in not-for-profit accounting and reporting, and I don't like talking about accounting and reporting on here, but it's a good time to talk about it <laugh>. And, uh, it's easy for me to talk about it. 'cause I probably have an argument about this all the time. But, um, but yeah, you, you can't, you generally can't record volunteer hours and labor and time that goes into running an operation. And a lot of people say, oh yeah, you only spent $200,000. Like, that's, and it's like, yeah, but we didn't have to spend a million dollars because we're so good at managing volunteers and they wanna be with us and they wanna help the people in their community. And if, if we, if we weren't doing what we were doing, they wouldn't be here and someone would have to pay for that. So you would have to pay a million dollars, but you can't record that <laugh>,

Paul Shackford:

You can't record it. But the point is, who else would pay for it? So the government wouldn't, they've already decided that they can't, they won't, in our county, the government will give breakfast and lunch to the residents of the shelter, but not the dinners because we do that, but they don't have the resources to put another million dollars into the Bergen County budget to pay for these folks. So it wouldn't get done. It just literally wouldn't get done. And since most of the ones who come to the dock have families, it would put them into such a difficult position. We've come to believe that the program that addresses food insecurity is actually a homeless prevention program because we're keeping them in their apartments.

Brad Caruso:

It's all mutually inclusive to all everything that you do. So I think it's super, and as you said before, I mean, there's definitely multiple layers of, of this concept of homelessness, but, but you know, having a house is one thing. Having mental health supports another, having food is another, having access to a job or resources or ability to get to a job is another, like, there, there's so many layers to it that, that often get lost. And I've even seen, you know, publicly something said where it's like, oh yeah, but we put this much money towards this. It's like, that's paying for the housing <laugh>. What's paying for everything else? <laugh>?

Kate Duggan:

Well, you know, that is something that makes us different than a a lot of organizations is, um, you know, there's, uh, posters you see around housing ends homelessness. And yes, it physically gets a family off the street, but if you are gonna move the needle, then there are support services that have to go with that. Because once the assistance ends, if there is no change in the, in the employment, in the ability to receive reliable, safe childcare for your children, if none of that is put into place, then after the assistance ends, that family is very vulnerable and likely to go back into homelessness.

Paul Shackford:

Uh, so talk a little bit about some of the services, Kate, the case management, and-

Kate Duggan:

Yeah, so, uh, we do have case managers. We come from a premise of empowerment. So we never do for a family what they can do for themselves. We don't fill out forms for them unless there's a reason that they can't do it themselves. We work with their strengths. We ask them where their interests lie and see if we can't build on those. We had a woman in the program, she had three children, and one of the case managers said, well, what do you want to do? She was in a low paying job and the woman thought about it for a while, and then she said, you know, I come from a family of truck drivers. My dad and my brothers were truck drivers. I always wanted to do that. So family Promise paid for her to get her commercial driver's license and her income raised. They moved out of one of our transitional apartments into an apartment of their own. Uh, she has a, a stable job she's providing for her family. And while this was all going on, her children were watching her work hard and succeed and really see the payoff of all of this.

Paul Shackford:

She took it very seriously and it changed her life. But also for the kids.

Brad Caruso:

I love hearing stories like that because I love just knowing that these couple things you did made such a difference in somebody's life. You, you made a massive difference in that individual and their family's life. You changed their life. What did you provide? You provided, we cared about you, we listened to you, we tried to help you, we provided you a little bit of assistance, and now this person has a completely different trajectory in their life. Like, that's incredible. That's incredible to hear. Do you have any more good stories like that? Because I love hearing stories like that.

Paul Shackford:

We were at one place and we were talking about, well, we've helped this many people and it's not that many, and so on. And then somebody said to wait a minute, you may not be helping thousands of people every year, but the ones you help are changed forever. You know, you can get so involved in a day-to-day that you need somebody to smack you up in the back of the head and say, "look at what you're doing."

Kate Duggan:

But they do the hard work. We always say, if a family, if we're working harder than a family, then something's very wrong. So this is why when people say, oh, homeless people are lazy, I would pit one of our families against any family as far as how hardworking and tenacious and resilient they are. You know, those stereotypes just don't hold up when you, you see some of these families

Paul Shackford:

And when you see folks, we have people, some people who say, why do you provide meals to all everybody who comes to the loading dock to get them, uh, they should be working. First of all, they are working and they really are hardworking people. Some of them are coming from jobs that they've been working 12 hours a day, they're running there to get there before we close. And we've, we've heard this over the years too, that somebody will drive in, in a relatively new car and they'll get a meal and they may look relatively nicely dressed, and then they leave and somebody will say, well, why did, why did she need a meal? And I, I said, what do we know about that person other than she's driving that car? We don't know anything more about, yeah, we're jumping to a conclusion that she's scamming us. Well, I say, if I'm being scammed, I sleep well at night. If I'm giving out a few extra meals every night, I'm okay with that.

Kate Duggan:

The food program's a very public program. I don't see a lot of people standing online in a public parking lot to receive a meal if they don't need one.

Brad Caruso:

I think just a couple things that you said, just to comment upon, where I've seen a lot of value that you bring to individuals is surrounding this concept of filling different needs at different times. And it's hard to say what one individual might need at one given time. Like they may need a meal, they may need a little bit of financial support, they may need roof over their head for a period of time. They may need more permanent housing, they may need case management support. They may, and and I, everything that you've said, you're identifying those needs as they're happening and then helping to fill them, which is helping to solve the challenge for that individual. You're not just providing this or not just providing that. And, and I think sometimes when we approach an issue in a silo of, you know, we only do this or we only do that, it's sometimes very difficult to help that person overcome the challenges they're going through as they're going through 'em.

Paul Shackford:

It's a very holistic approach that we take and, and I think the case managers do a great job of listing and guiding and helping, as Kate said, not just a handout. We're investing in these families and they're working harder than we are.

Brad Caruso:

Yeah. Switching gears back to housing. We always hear a lot of challenges with housing. There's accessibility, you know, where is the housing? Is it available? Affordability? Can somebody actually afford the housing? Oftentimes we're dealing with towns to get housing approved. We're dealing with everything that goes along with trying to provide a roof over someone's head. Construction doubles every time you talk to somebody there, there's a lot of things that occur in the world. Can you talk a little bit about the housing programs you offer a little bit more about it? And what are some of the challenges you come across to acquire housing, to put housing in in your community? What are some of the things that, that occur that, um, you know, maybe, maybe are preventing you from, from doing more than what you're trying to do?

Kate Duggan:

Okay. That's a, that's a loaded question. There's a lot- a lot to-

Brad Caruso:

<laugh>. It's a, there's about eight questions in there. So you can, you know, we, we can go one by one <laugh>.

Kate Duggan:

So when a, when a family actually becomes homeless, uh, they come to Family Promise and when they decide that we are the program for them and we are able to help them, then initially we put them into a local, what we call a family friendly hotel. And that means it is equipped with a kitchenette so at least the family can cook some meals and eat together and be together as a family. And during those initial couple of weeks, we assess them, we help them, uh, identify the issues that contributed to their homelessness and help them create a plan as to how to address those. Do they need job training? Do they need a car that isn't going to break down every month? Do they need access to good childcare? You know, what are those issues? And then they put together a plan together with the case managers and then they break it into baby steps and see how they can reach those goals.

Kate Duggan:

Some families can, in two or three months, can kind of solve whatever those issues were. Others need more long-term support. And in that case, we have transitional apartments around the county where a family can move in there and stay usually one to two years while they work on their plan. Save money. We don't charge for housing when a family's with us, but we do expect them to contribute 30, 40, sometimes 50% of their adjusted gross income into an escrow account. It's really forced savings so that when they do leave us, they've acquired a nest egg, not only for first and last month's rent and utilities, but also for the next bump in the road that they're inevitably going to hit. So the financial education part of our program is critical and also tailored to the needs of the particular family. Um, as far as community perception and how that has been a barrier to us, we are looking to open up a single site, which would replace the hotels where we would have our offices on site as well as program space, and then living units for eight to 10 families. We recently identified a building, um, but the town, uh, we needed a variance to change the use from commercial to include the residential piece. And we got quite a bit of pushback from the town. And because of what I believe is a few very vocal opponents, the town rejected our proposal. And again, I think it's because they don't perceive the families as being, they, they perceive them as being someone else, not them, not their friends. Little do they know that the kids sitting next to theirs in school, their families could be going through this.

Paul Shackford:

You know, some of the pushback that we, we heard, uh, we're gonna ruin the schools because we're bringing in all these kids. Well, first of all, the, the kids, um, under law when they, let's say somebody becomes homeless in Town A and they come to us in Town B, well, the school district in town, a has to pay for them to come back to town a uh, so they can stay with their schoolmates if they wish, or they can go to town. B 95% wanna stay in town, a so they stay with their kids. Again, they're trying to show that they're not homeless. So that makes all the sense in the way, and that's a really strong point because it keeps them in a, a community that they are comfortable with. But the pushback, the immediate pushback is you're gonna ruin our schools. You're gonna create new traffic jams, almost anything you can think of. Uh, you'll be, we're gonna have to put police there-

Brad Caruso:

As if putting an Amazon facility in your town, <laugh> doesn't, cause, doesn't cause even bigger issues.

Paul Shackford:

<laugh>, it's like when I told you that, that here in my town, I'm in a small town and for somebody to say, I'm glad we stopped that program. And we said, no, we've been doing it for seven years, and we did it for 22 years without any issues. In fact, I used to, they used to tell me that I had to go over to the police station and tell them people are gonna be staying over on Saturday night this week. And so I did that and I did that. And then finally they said, we don't ever have to come to your place. You don't have to tell us anymore. We know how to run the programs. We do understand that there are residents that won't completely understand people in the community. So we don't make a big deal out of this. We know how to do it quietly also for the protection and the privacy of our families. I mean, they're going through enough.

Brad Caruso:

So obviously your organization does a lot, you know, we see a lot of shortages in funding in the world. You know, many organizations are funded in different ways and you know, just as an organization, you're, you're, you know, you have a lot of volunteers that help. You're certainly providing a big impact in your community on a variety of levels, whether it be providing the housing assistance, providing the meals, providing other programs that you offer. How does the public help you? What can the audience out there do to kind of help an organization like yours continue to thrive?

Kate Duggan:

We get, uh, virtually no federal government funding. Uh, we get most of our funding from individuals and foundations and corporations. So funding of course, is always something that we're working hard to increase. 'cause the more money we have, the more people that we can help. So whether it's come to one of our events, we have a walk in the, in spring, a gala in the fall to have your own little fundraiser, um, volunteer at the walk-in dinner when we have our single site, there will be more opportunities surrounding the, the building and programming that we'll have in place there. Um, but we have a director of volunteer, so people are interested, they can reach out to Family Promise and, and see, because we may not have a, an advertised need. And then somebody calls up and says, well, you know, I'm a videographer. Well, these days a videographer can help in many ways. So individuals have skills that we can certainly utilize.

Paul Shackford:

And the more people who know about us tell others, that's why I make my pitch at the walk-in dinner. Don't go home and say, you were there for three hours. Tell them it's about 1.5 million meals, but also tell 'em about the housing part of who we are. 'cause a lot of people who come to the Walk-in Dinner program, many of them don't even know about our housing work. And so we try to educate them anytime we can. Uh, and, and then sometimes they become volunteers in different ways.

Brad Caruso:

That's interesting when you talk with people that might say, oh yeah, I know you do this, but, but not that. But it's great. You have the opportunity. And, and I, and I think, you know, using this as a platform too, I always like using you. It's one of the reasons why I like doing this is like, you get to hear a lot more about what an organization does, what they care about, who they help, how they help them. You don't have to worry about me auditing those numbers. Like, you know, you can share them and they're good. And, um, but, but at the end of the day, it's, it's getting that, getting that message out about, well, this is how we help people and if you need help, this is how you find us. I love it. I love that you shared your time today.

Brad Caruso:

Love that you shared more information, shared a couple stories, shared more about the impact that you're having, and, um, yeah, I mean that's, that's the reason why we do it and certainly value your time and energy that, that went into this to, uh, to make this happen. So, you know, Paul and Kate, thank you for dedicating your time to the show, being on here, sharing more about the organization, uh, and, and the work that you're doing in your community to help. Um, yeah, it's certainly commendable and, and certainly is a great thing. So really appreciate you having on here today and having you just share a little bit more and, and hopefully those out there can, you know, listen, learn and uh, come help however they can.

Kate Duggan:

Thanks for having us.

Paul Shackford:

Thank you very much.

Brad Caruso:

Love it. And uh, warriors, thank you for listening. I want you to subscribe and meet us right back here for another episode of Withum Civic Warriors and hope everyone has a, uh, has a great day. Bye everybody.