Transcript:
This podcast was transcribed through a third-party application. Please disregard any misrepresentations.
Intro:
Welcome to the NextGen Legal Podcast, candid conversations with next generation leaders in the legal industry about new ways of doing business in a rapidly evolving legal market. Now here’s your host, Marci Taylor.
Marci Taylor:
Hi, welcome to the NextGen Legal podcast. I’m Marci Taylor from Withum’s Law Firm Advisory group. And today I’m really excited to have Nita Cumello, from Thompson Reuters joining us. Good morning, Nita.
Nita Cumello:
Good morning. How are you, Marci?
Marci Taylor:
I’m wonderful. I’m so looking forward to our conversation today, I’ve enjoyed our conversations in the past. Would you mind telling our listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Nita Cumello:
Sure. I actually have evolved quite a bit in my career, I would say, right now and for the last 19 plus years, I have been working at Thompson Reuters and have held various roles throughout my career in sales and key client management, and it’s kind of culminated now for me into wearing two hats at the organization. One is as a global client director for our global large law firm segment within legal professionals at Thompson Reuters. And in that role, I’m predominantly responsible for overseeing kind of the holistic and strategic relationship between our largest law firm customers, our clients, and Thompson Reuters. And then the second role or the second hat that I have, which seems sort of distinctly separate yet, I will suggest that there is quite a lot of synergy between the two roles, is as a director of wellbeing for Thompson Reuters, within the global large law firm segment.
Nita Cumello:
And, this is a role that is evolving. I sort of started this at the beginning of 2022, but it came by kind of, honestly, throughout my career as I’ve been quite passionate in this area for a really, really long time. I would even go so far as to say a commitment to health and wellbeing is probably what I would attribute the majority of any success I’ve ever had to in the other part of my career. But I work really closely with our most strategic clients in the space of their strategy for wellbeing and trying to identify how they’re building out wellbeing programs, where can we be adding value at TR but it was envisioned that it wouldn’t just be an externally facing role.
Nita Cumello:
I sort of shared with our most senior leadership within global large law here at Thompson Reuters that in order for us to be really, truly doing this authentically and partnering with large law firms in this area of tremendous importance and priority for them that we have to be doing it ourselves and we have to be doing it authentically. And so, directing our energies as well and making this a part of our strategic focus within global large law at TR of course, all of Thompson Reuters has a really prominent and robust and amazing human resources and benefits teams that are focused on the general health and wellbeing of all Thompson writers’ employees. This is a little bit more specific and that it’s more tailored toward our global, large law firm people, those of us who work in this segment of the business and are working with our largest customers. So I’m kind of building out the wellbeing strategy for global large law and working with our largest customers in this space.
Marci Taylor:
That’s so exciting. Yeah. I guess you have to walk talk to bring it to your clients. I’m so interested in how your passion for health and wellbeing developed and kind of, if you don’t mind getting a little personal what it means to you, because I love talking to people about that stuff.
Nita Cumello:
Of course, of course. So, I mean, I sort of started out by saying I’ve been with Thomson Reuters for, like I said, over 19 years, I came directly out of law school. I didn’t know at the very outset that I didn’t want to practice law, but I kind of gathered that fairly early on in my law school career that this is not necessarily something I wanted to do. And then I came to Thompson Reuters thinking that it was gonna be just a stepping stone before I went to go do something that I was really passionate about. Like maybe I would go write books or be an English professor or something like that. That’s what I sort of thought. And I found that this was a place where, wow, I really liked what I was doing.
Nita Cumello:
I could kind of build a career here, but keep in mind that when you’re working in sales and client management types of roles, this is pretty high stress and constantly on the go. So professionally, I always kind of need to be on. And to answer your question about getting a little bit personal, like, why is this important to me? I discovered pretty early on in my life due to experiencing some pretty significant, you know, life events at a young age, specifically the loss of my mother who died of breast cancer when I was in law school, that my resilience, you know, my ability to kind of overcome the inevitable challenges that life presents is really entirely dependent on my mental, physical, and spiritual health. And so to this end, I prioritize and am passionate about, including all elements of what contributes to, a strong physical body, and empathetic and compassionate mind and spirit and a meaningful sense of community and purpose. I attribute this commitment to that, which enables me to perform personally and professionally, you know, whether this is as a mother, as an executive within Thompson Reuters, as a friend, as a leader, it’s a daily practice and an effort and some days are certainly easier than others, but this is derived from a place of like true experience in my life that this was how this dedication to myself in my body spirit is the way that I thrive.
Marci Taylor:
That’s wonderful. I find in talking with people, a lot of people come to have a focus on health and wellbeing because of trauma that they’ve experienced at some point, whether it’s the loss of a parent or the loss of a child, you know, or some other personal trauma or loss that tends to bring people to that. But I think, especially in the last couple years, I don’t know if it’s been your experience. People don’t necessarily have had to have trauma to come to this place. They think people have just kind of reassessed their priorities to some extent and organizations have had to shift to accommodate that more than they had in the past, perhaps.
Nita Cumello:
Yes. I mean, I almost kind of think that for, I’m not saying that the pandemic was a good thing, but there are good things that have come out of it. And I think that I don’t even, I don’t know a single person that I have met or spoken with that hasn’t had some sort of pandemic epiphany, right. You know, wherein they have reprioritized something in their lives, whether it’s work or something personal or both, there’s been some sort of collective shift. I think that we’re feeling,
Marci Taylor:
I couldn’t agree more. So let’s back up a little bit to your professional stuff. I think it’s so interesting because you have a unique window into so many of the most successful law firms in the world, you know just because of the work that you do. So I think you have a really interesting perspective and, Thompson Reuters does some pretty amazing market studies on the business of law, that I find useful. I know my clients find useful. So what are you seeing happening in particularly your subset of clients, the largest law firms in terms of addressing wellbeing needs in a formal way more so than they perhaps had five years ago?
Nita Cumello:
Yeah. I mean, I think that, so it’s my belief, now more than ever before that a focus on wellbeing is kind of an essential differentiator across organizations, law firms included, that will not only enable performance and growth and talent retention, but also a thriving and sustainable culture, and I think that law firms, especially the larger law firms, are starting to kind of come to some recognition of this and to understand that this is really about sustainability. How do we thrive as an organization? How do we optimize our people? There is almost, I can’t recall which one of my clients said this, but it’s actually been a fairly pervasive trend that they’ve been saying it in some form or fashion, that our greatest asset as a law firm are the minds of our people and the problems that they can solve.
Nita Cumello:
Right. Like that is what we’re selling as a law firm. That is the value that we bring to society. And so, how do we make a high value investment in those minds? How do we optimize them? And so I’ll say that that’s kind of on, it sounds at like a 50,000 foot level explaining it in that way. But I think that that large firms are really thinking about optimizing their people and that in the beginning, particularly during the pandemic, it was like, how do we just offer them support, right. And putting kind of the onus of responsibility or the burden on them to support themselves. And maybe they would help them by signing pledges or providing them with access to different health and wellness apps. And not that I’m undermining the importance of that.
Nita Cumello:
I think that those are all great. I think now what law firms are starting to think about is how can we help our people feel connected to the work that they’re doing here at this firm? How can we provide them with more clarity around the work that they’re doing in their career progression? How can we provide them more control over that? Because that is all connected to kind of more holistic wellbeing and designing it into the very flow of their culture and how they operate as a firm. So that’s what I’m sort of starting to see early stages happening at these firms as leaders of the firm are recognizing that they need to do that in order to attract the best talent to retain the best talent and actually to deliver the highest level of client value, because when you optimize your people and you optimize those minds and their hearts, and feeling attached to the work that they’re doing, it’s like a virtuous cycle, and it really helps the law firm overall.
Marci Taylor:
Absolutely. And I mean, to be clear, firms were looking at this before the pandemic, right. I mean, there were some firms that were really kind of ahead of the pack that advertised their focus on wellness. You know, Morgan Lewis’s ML Well comes to mind and I’m sure there were others. And I noticed during the pandemic, a lot of firms were talking about wellbeing, but it was more in terms of keeping people physically well, because everyone was so focused on, I don’t wanna get sick. I don’t wanna get sick, but I think the holistic perspective that you have, that it’s not just physical fitness and wellness, which I know is very meaningful to you, but also the mental wellness, emotional wellness, spiritual wellness, that kind of makes you a complete and whole person. I think it’s interesting what you just said about the minds of the lawyers being essentially the products that firms are selling, because, as well as I do that, there has to be some sort of business objective for any type of initiative you have.
Marci Taylor:
So when you think about it that way and talk about it with law firm leaders, that way, it seems like, Ooh, there’s a business objective to this. But, I mean, the other business objective that you mentioned is just recruitment and retention, which we know has been crazy whether you’re a small and mid-size firm or a top 20 firm. I know that this focus on wellness is, in some instances, a direct response to just trying to keep people and trying to keep people connected with the firm and staying with the firm. And, you know, all the feedback from your studies, from TR studies and other studies is that, other than compensation, having some sort of sense of connection, finding meaning and purpose in your work, is why people tell us they’re leaving large law firms. They’re, in some instances, leaving the profession.
Nita Cumello:
I mean, I will say this, it’s so interesting to see how law firms have been responding to this talent war that’s going on. It seems like compensation is this short term way to handle, what is really a longer term problem in terms of factors that influence whether attorneys are willing and wanting to stay at an organization. And the way I think about it is yes, compensation is important. I’m not trying to undermine the importance of compensation, but it’s really table stakes. It’s how you keep up. It’s not how you set yourself apart as a firm. And really what we’re hearing from people and what the data is showing is that when we survey standout talent or we survey associates that are telling us, what are those factors that influence whether they are wanting to stay at a firm beyond compensation, or to leave a firm or to leave the industry it’s really around more holistically, what we would categorize as wellbeing. It’s do they feel appreciated in the workplace. Do they feel like they are making a meaningful contribution in a way that they can progress in their careers? Do they feel like the leaders within their organization have a genuine regard for their wellbeing, wellbeing? Are they providing mentorship? Are they providing flexibility? What’s the culture of the firm. So that’s what the data is showing as being so critical. Those are all factors of wellbeing that extend far beyond compensation.
Marci Taylor:
Yeah. And I think we’ve probably heard more about firm culture in the last two years than we have in the last two decades. Right. And so how can you really promote your firm’s culture if you don’t have a good handle on the wellbeing of your employees and the connectedness of your team? So one of the interesting things that I think about is, you and I’ve both been around long enough to know, that things are cyclical in the law. And so, you know, there’s a huge focus on wellbeing right now and retention, but what happens when the economy shifts or slows down, or we have a correction of some sort and, do you think that this will just be put aside and we’ll just go back to worrying about billable hours and profitability, or do you think that this is more than just a trend and something that will be long lasting in the profession?
Nita Cumello:
I think that this is more than just a trend. I think that there may be more times when it’s more keenly focused in terms of like high strategic priority or mid strategic priority. But I really think about this, as like a true element of sustainability and sustainability extends beyond just climate and planet. It’s about resilience holistically. It’s about the resilience of the business. What is the sustainability strategy of the business as a whole? And I think about that in terms of how organizations are creating a sustainable environment for their people. I think that we’re going through transformation right now, and it requires a transformation, a pretty vital one. I think that sustainability strategy requires an understanding of what one’s role is in the world, what their purpose is, and then arming the greatest asset of the organization, as we said before, which is your people to develop their skills and their talent and their leadership and their contribution to that firm culture and that output of that firm culture, so that they can help the firm to achieve its purpose and deliver on its long term strategy.
Nita Cumello:
So I don’t believe that this is, is sort of a flash in the pan brief initiative based on just coming out of a pandemic. I think that, that we’ve tipped beyond that into this is a fundamental element of our sustainability strategy as organizations. And frankly, I would even go so far as to say a society.
Marci Taylor:
I agree. I couldn’t agree more. You know, evidence of that commitment to the long term nature of these efforts, this position of director of wellbeing. I saw one study that said about 25% of large law firms have these positions now, more are looking into hiring these roles. So roles like what you have in TR are being developed in law firms. What are you seeing in that way with the clients, with whom you work?
Nita Cumello:
It’s really interesting. I agree with you. I think that it’s kind of, it’s evolving, it’s growing, I’m seeing more and more, wellbeing titles or, more, I think one that I heard yesterday was a chief legal performance officer, which I actually love that title. Because I think it almost speaks to that investment piece or what we were talking about before, where it’s almost like how wellbeing feels fluffy to some people. I think about it more like a high value investment, like happiness. But it’s, you have to be thinking about it in that way. And I think it’s easier for people to associate that with performance than with the word wellbeing. So, I haven’t taken account, or I don’t know, you know, what the exact percentage is. So I sort of trust what you’re saying or trust that study, that it’s about 25%.
Nita Cumello:
I imagine it will continue to grow what I do know about those in the industry that hold that sort of title, whether it’s director of wellbeing or something in that vein is that it runs the gamut in terms of what their background is or where they come from. I mean, you see some people that are sort of specifically credentialed, like with a masters of applied positive psychology. So for your listeners, if you don’t know what positive psychology is, it’s essentially the study of what makes life worth living. The father of positive psychology is Martin Seligman, who started a program at UPenn. But to me, it’s really about empowering individuals and organizations to flourish and thrive. And so there are folks in this industry who hold the title of director wellbeing, who are credentialed in that space and are applying positive psychology in the way that they’re building programming and developing their people.
Nita Cumello:
You also see others that are coming from backgrounds in HR, in recruiting, in professional development, some are previous partners that have a passion for wellbeing, sort of similar to like what I would say me at Thompson Reuters, I have a true passion for it. I’ve lived a life of experiencing this, and so it’s sort of passing it on in that way. And some coming from other industries. I recently spoke with a firm in Texas yesterday who just hired somebody that comes from the healthcare industry and has never worked in legal before. So, I feel like we’re gonna start seeing people coming from other industries that may be a little bit more ahead of where legal is and taking what they’ve learned from those industries and applying it here to this one. And I mean, by all means, I welcome that and welcome any experience from any fields that can help the industry as a whole rising tide lifts all boats, right?
Marci Taylor:
Yeah. I saw one firm hired someone out of a large global technology company. And it’s exciting to me. I mean, because clients of law firms have been aware of this and focusing on this for quite some time. So it’s, your clients know about this, so law firms need to catch up. And I hear what you’re saying about the soft skills. I’ve heard that for so long. And one of my best analogies that I like to use is, I love mindfulness and I’m a meditator, I’ve meditated for years. And I like talking to lawyers and telling them that mindfulness is like the gym for your brain. And somehow that makes it a little more acceptable. You know, you’re not just sitting on a mountain side, contemplating life. You’re actually retraining your brain and there’s so much science out there now that hasn’t been there before on how that affects your performance and your creativity and your ability to manage. I love the stuff on mindfulness as it relates to emotional intelligence. Dan Goldman combined the two years back. And I think that it’s so important, especially if you’re in a leadership role. So I like that. I like what you’re saying about that new title, the lawyer performance title. I think that makes it a little more acceptable.
Nita Cumello:
You feel better for lawyers. I think they can wrap their hands around that.
Marci Taylor:
Right? We’re not gonna make them hold hands and sing kumbaya. This actually has a significant impact on your business outcomes. And you know, you were talking about differentiation earlier and it’s so hard for firms to differentiate themselves. And what I’ve heard clients talk a lot more about in the last couple years is their talent brand strategy. Firms spend a ton of money on their brand strategy period, but now they’re thinking about talent brand strategy and, how do we develop that? And how do we position ourselves and what are the differentiators? And this is certainly a differentiator, but then when we’ve been brought in to help firms that are bleeding associates. One of the main complaints we hear is the experience that the firm didn’t live up to the brand promise. So if firms are out there saying that they’re committed to the wellness of their professionals, you know, what are they doing to live up to that.
Nita Cumello:
I think that the thing that that just struck me in what you said is there has to be authenticity, in the way that the law firm sort of presents itself and the lived experience of its people, and what the law firm is actually doing. You know, there’s like the articulated culture, and then there’s the lived culture. And I think that those have to be in alignment and connect up because when you think about that from a wellbeing perspective, definitionally, right. I think it actually is important to put some language around this, like what actually even is wellbeing, or how do you define it? When I think about it, because I think if you ask a hundred people, you’ll get probably a hundred definitions of what it means to them.
Nita Cumello:
But when I define wellbeing and what I mean by when I say wellbeing, it’s alignment and connection to one’s whole self and the world around them. And I’ve said this before, I’ve said it on my own podcast before. I believe if you are here, you’re important and you have something meaningful to contribute. So if you’re in a state of wellbeing, it means that you have a holistic understanding of, and even an alignment of your physical, your emotional, your mental, your social state. And when that’s the case, I believe you can really develop that potential in your workspace. You can work more productively, you can work more creatively, you can build more positive relationships in the workplace. You can show up more authentically to work, and you can cope with those everyday stresses of life, which are a lot in the legal profession, and you can make a meaningful contribution.
Nita Cumello:
And so I think like what a lot of law firms, or a step that may be missing for a lot of law firms right now is that purpose work. And to be really thinking very intentionally about what is the reason that we exist as a law firm, so that we can keep kind of coming back to that in every decision that we make, whether it’s for our talent brand strategy, or for the clients that we take on or whatever the case is, what is the reason that we exist today? And by the way, I don’t believe that that reason is to just deliver client value or best client value. Every law firm says that no law firm is differentiating itself. When it says we deliver the best client value, right. We all say it, right. Why do you exist? What is your purpose? Then you can get your people to align to that. If it is authentic.
Marci Taylor:
Right. It goes back to core values stuff, which law firms were doing 20 years ago, but it’s still important, perhaps more important than ever. And maybe with the younger generations pushing, especially on that, to get their firms to really think about and articulate what those values are so they can decide whether they’re aligned with their own individual purposes or not.
Nita Cumello:
Exactly.
Marci Taylor:
Are there any metrics for assessing whether firms are successful at this so far? Or is it too new?
Nita Cumello:
I think it’s a little new right now. I think that this is something that I have been kind of working on is we need to start getting some data and some baseline data upon which we can start benchmarking, right. Both for ourselves or internally within our own organizations, but also for the industry as a whole, and I think it has to go beyond just you know, putting that onus upon the individual and really thinking about it from the standpoint of what are those workplace contributors to mental health and wellbeing that law firms can actually move the needle on and whether that’s providing a psychologically safe place to work, or you can define meaning and purpose. I mean, there’s probably a whole host of themes that you could go through, but yeah, I am partnering up with, well, Thompson Reuters is partnering up with another organization called unwind to try to figure some of that out and working with some law firms to get some of that baseline data and to see how that pans out.
Marci Taylor:
I’m really excited to see that.
Nita Cumello:
Me too,
Marci Taylor:
You’ll have to let me know. And you have a podcast on this subject, right. Do you wanna tell us about that a little bit?
Nita Cumello:
Yeah. So the podcast is called is called Practice Well(Being) and I have a cohost, her name is Becky Morrison and her company is called Untangle Happiness. And she is just an unbelievable friend of mine, colleague, co-host, she’s a former practicing attorney that has gone through just an evolution in her career as an executive coach now. And we co-host this podcast together on practice wellbeing where it’s kind of a legal performance and wellbeing podcast. And we’re really kind of addressing a lot of themes around wellbeing and performance and the connection between the two all of the components therein anything, anything from honoring scientific evidence to diversity and inclusion to purpose and meaning to, you know, I mean, just mindfulness, any number of topics that we’re covering and we’re bringing on guest, and experts to have conversations much like you’re doing here.
Marci Taylor:
Yeah, full disclosure, I have met Becky and she’s amazing. And the two of you, I feel like are powerhouses in this area. So I’ve enjoyed to your podcast so far, and I learned so much, so we’ll put some information about it in the show notes so that people can check it out. This podcast is fundamentally about the next generation of leadership in law firms. So, you work with law firm leaders every day. What are your thoughts on the impact on wellbeing and law firm leaders and where that’s going?
Nita Cumello:
Okay. So in terms of wellbeing and law firm leaders, and how they’re sort of incorporating that into firm culture, I kind of think about it this way and I don’t know if I heard this somewhere or if I made it up in my own head, but I think of it this way, culture doesn’t live in the walls of a building. It lives in the hearts and minds of your people. It’s in their lived experience in working for their law firm and how they meaningfully contribute to the very reason that that law firm exists. Like we were saying before, and this holistic transformation that we’re sort of collectively realizing whether it’s on an individual level or on the organizational level, really requires us to think about culture holistically. We’re transforming into what I hope to be healthier organizations.
Nita Cumello:
And this means places where individuals can be empowered to flourish, but that the onus is not upon them alone, that they are empowered to flourish based on their needs yes. Based on their values and based on their purpose, but also where teams and the workplace itself provides for a psychologically safe environment, which means for those who don’t know the term psychological safety, I do think that it’s going to be fairly commonplace term moving forward. It essentially means people feel safe to bring their whole authentic selves to work without, fear of retribution in some way for doing so, or fear of not being included. I think that that is really, really important. And I think that the organization as a whole needs to be a place that embraces productivity and growth in that, which is required for kind of long term sustainability. So that’s how I think about law firm leaders needing to think about how to incorporate wellbeing into culture is how do we do this from an empowering the individual to taking that to teams and then making it, you know, the whole organization.
Marci Taylor:
Yeah. So I think what I’m hearing you say is it’s a top down and bottom up approach. And, I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, but I have no matter what the size of a law firm, whether it’s five lawyers or 2000 lawyers firms take on firm culture takes on the characteristics of the leader of the firm. And so, I think that it has to be authentic, like you said, so the more, I think law firm leaders embrace this and these concepts and practice them themselves and share them with their organizations. I feel like the more, it really has a chance to take hold and be successful.
Nita Cumello:
Well, yeah, it has to be, it’s kind of what we were saying before it’s, does the lived experience match up with the articulated experience and if that’s an alignment, then it’s authentic. If not, then not, because what will end up being, there’s the culture and then there’s the covert culture. And that’s the lived experience and you want that to be the good one.
Marci Taylor:
Right? And you mentioned psychological safety. If anyone wants to read a little more about that. One of my favorite recent books is the Culture Code by Dan Coyle. And I talk to law firms and they think that the culture are the happy hours that they have, or the, you know, ice cream socials, or pizza parties. But, he says that in the successful organizations that he tracked, it was building safety, number one, sharing vulnerability. How do you do that in a law firm? And establishing purpose, all the things that we’re talking about and the organizations that he tracked that had the most successful cultures had those three components. And he describes it, everything from Navy seals to Pixar and how that really plays out in reality and what it means to their bottom lines. Do you have any favorite books in this area that you’d recommend to our listeners?
Nita Cumello:
Well you just made me think of something and it wasn’t what I was originally going to say, but that’s okay. It’s not a book it’s it’s actually a Netflix series or documentary, it’s the Brené Brown Call to Courage. I think it’s called. Highly, highly recommend it. I just watched it again for the second time. It sort of talks about this idea around vulnerability and leadership and, you can’t have courage without having vulnerability. And I loved that series, but to answer your question more specifically, in terms of like, what’s a book that has had a tremendous impact on me, I read a lot. So there’s a lot of books that I’ve had a lot of impact on me. The one most recently that had a huge impact on me was Atomic Habits by James Clear.
Nita Cumello:
And just the idea of you know, we don’t rise to the level of our goals. We fall to the level of our systems or our training and what are those sort of daily commitments, those daily habits that make us who we actually are and who we want to be, that that we can kind of commit to doing. And that made a really big impact on me because it sort of speaks to the whole idea that we, I think as a society, tend to underestimate what can be done in a year and overestimate what can be done in a day. Like you’re not gonna be a physically fit person. For example, if you just go to the gym once it’s your daily commitments, and it’s actually better to have smaller, shorter commitments, micro stepping along the way than to try to do it all in one go. And so that had a big impact on me.
Marci Taylor:
That’s, that’s awesome. We’ll share the info on that with our listeners as well. You reminded me of, I’ll get really ‘wellness’ with you. I’ve seen the Dali Lama speak a couple of times, and it was one of the memorable things that he said was, look, he was talking about meditation. He said, look, I’m not here to make you a Buddhist. I don’t care what you practice, just practice,
Nita Cumello:
Just practice.
Marci Taylor:
Right?
Nita Cumello:
Yep. Something.
Marci Taylor:
Yeah. So that always, that always stuck with me. And it I think is in line with what you’re saying about the atomic habits. It’s just what you do every single day and what you’re committed to every single day. Even if it’s small, makes a big difference.
Nita Cumello:
I agree.
Marci Taylor:
Any closing words of wisdom to law firms that are looking to improve the wellbeing of their lawyers and their teams?
Nita Cumello:
Yeah. You know, I do. And it’s, again, it’s not my words of wisdom. It’s something that I heard the other day, but that just had such resonant impact on me that I wanna share with the world, because it was so beautiful. It was again from Brené Brown, she shared that leadership used to be about muscle and today it’s about brain, but moving forward, it will be about heart. And that what we know that we will not be able to replace no matter how great the algorithm is that which makes us uniquely human is courage, connection and empathy. And that these are the skills that we need to facilitate and develop in order that we can innovate in order that we can solve complex problems. Many of which we don’t even know exist yet. But that’s the kind of skills that we need to be honing right now and paying attention to. And why, I think this again, to go back to one of your previous questions, this is not a flash in the pan initiative. This is the way that we build those skills for the future and why I would even go so far as to say, when we talk about future of work, that wellbeing is the future of work.
Marci Taylor:
I can’t think of a better way to end, thank you so much for your time today.
Nita Cumello:
Thank you.
Marci Taylor:
Really enjoyed speaking with you as always. Hopefully we’ll have you back again and hear about what advances you’re making at Thompson Reuters and in the profession, and great to hear you and speak with you.
Nita Cumello:
I always appreciate talking to you, Marci. You have such great energy and I always get something out of our conversations too. So thank you so much.
Marci Taylor:
Ditto. Thanks.
Outro:
Thank you for joining us for NextGen Legal Podcast. Are you ready to implement the ideas discussed in this podcast and become a next generation leader in your firm or company, please visit www.withum.com/LFA to learn more about Withum’s law firm advisory services, and schedule a time to speak with us today.
